Death in Vahalla

[kolakoski]

Well met!

Is there permanent death in Valhalla? If there isn’t, how does it work?

[IAmBatman]

I don't think it's ever established in the lore. My best guesses for the most likely routes are:

1. They get discorporated, "Good Omens" style and basically have to wait around for a bit for their Archkyrie to put them back together

2. They are removed from existence upon destruction

[Astroking112]

My understanding was always that Valhalla is just a different world that follows the normal laws of life and death. Several generals make a point of summoning people from right before their deaths (such as Jandar and Ullar), so units could theoretically die on Valhalla just like they could on their own worlds. I believe that some scenarios even imply that bodies are left on Valhalla after death, with one mentioning that battles upstream will turn the river red.

Of course, seeing as this is a kids' game, no explicit mention of people like Raelin legitimately dying are made to my knowledge. I also view individual battles as being non-canon, though (much like how Overwatch lets you mix villains with good guys in the same game despite them being enemies in the actual story, for example), so Sgt. Drake getting mindshackled by Ne-Gok-Sa and presumably joining Utgar in a random skirmish doesn't impact the overall story.

[Lazy Orang]

Yeah, I agree individual battles are generally non-canon... but don't always have to be, even if a main character 'dies'. Just because a character is destroyed doesn't necessarily mean they're dead, just that they're no longer able to fight - could be knocked unconscious, injured to the point they can no longer fight, etc.. Also, if a Valkyrie General can summon forces to Valhalla, what's to say they can't observe an important battle and, if a key warrior is about to be killed, summon them again to save their life again. I could see the likes of Raelin, Sgt. Drake, Nilfheim, Eltahale or Sir Gilbert getting summoned back to Jandar's Wellspring on multiple occassions, bemoaning that they can no longer support their comrade in the field.

[kolakoski]

Well met!

I can live with no definitive answer. I’ll continue in my custom thread.

[Heroscaper Guy]

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

Yeah, I agree individual battles are generally non-canon... but don't always have to be, even if a main character 'dies'. Just because a character is destroyed doesn't necessarily mean they're dead, just that they're no longer able to fight - could be knocked unconscious, injured to the point they can no longer fight, etc.. Also, if a Valkyrie General can summon forces to Valhalla, what's to say they can't observe an important battle and, if a key warrior is about to be killed, summon them again to save their life again. I could see the likes of Raelin, Sgt. Drake, Nilfheim, Eltahale or Sir Gilbert getting summoned back to Jandar's Wellspring on multiple occassions, bemoaning that they can no longer support their comrade in the field.

Two things, there are a few things that we know as canon through the lore (Einar and Vydar and then Aquilla joining over time, Valkrill becoming an archkyrie are the major ones I can think of, Tyrian's thing, but there really isnt that many others at least that I can think of). So we really don't know much about the war aside from how it started and like two fights (in Thormun's Journal, think they were called Battle of Stechavan 1 & 2). And two with how (unless I'm completely forgetting things or mixing them up) taxing it was to summon people, I just can't see them doing it as a reset button, maybe if they thought it was absolutely necessary that they survive (see big monster wrecking things such as Nilfheim or Quahon), but I think that they would summon someone new rather than use those precious time to recuperate from summoning on someone they already have.

[Lazy Orang]

From a strategic level, I'd rather save the life of a veteran who knows the lay of the land, knows the situation, knows the forces he might fight alongside or against, and just generally has experience of the war than summon an equivalent who'd need to be brought up to speed and would take a long time to get accustomed to this particular war. Experience and loyalty account for a lot.
I definitely reckon this sort of behaviour is more likely from the likes of Jandar, Aquilla and Ullar than from Utgar, Vydar or Valkril, though. (Though I have no doubt Vydar and Utgar would save Q9 and Cyprien respectively as many times as they needed to - they're just that valuable.)

[Heroscaper Guy]

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

From a strategic level, I'd rather save the life of a veteran who knows the lay of the land, knows the situation, knows the forces he might fight alongside or against, and just generally has experience of the war than summon an equivalent who'd need to be brought up to speed and would take a long time to get accustomed to this particular war. Experience and loyalty account for a lot.
I definitely reckon this sort of behaviour is more likely from the likes of Jandar, Aquilla and Ullar than from Utgar, Vydar or Valkril, though. (Though I have no doubt Vydar and Utgar would save Q9 and Cyprien respectively as many times as they needed to - they're just that valuable.)

I mean that starts the whole debate of do things like that have souls/can be remade or reconstructed (I'd certainly think a robot can be remade as long as his soul housing thing is intact and undead can be reborn as long as not completely destroyed (holy water, burning, etc)).

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by Heroscaper Guy

I mean that starts the whole debate of do things like that have souls/can be remade or reconstructed (I'd certainly think a robot can be remade as long as his soul housing thing is intact and undead can be reborn as long as not completely destroyed (holy water, burning, etc)).

Not sure what point you're making - they're being resummoned before a fatal blow, not reborn. (Though you might be fair that Q9 and Cyprien may be bad expamples here.)

[Heroscaper Guy]

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

Not sure what point you're making - they're being resummoned before a fatal blow, not reborn. (Though you might be fair that Q9 and Cyprien may be bad expamples here.)

That Vydar and Utgar wouldn't have to mainly with some of their units like those.

[Lazy Orang]

Yep, you're right - still, wouldn't surprise me if Jandar retrieved Raelin or Ullar retrieved Charos if necessary.

[IAmBatman]

Pretty sure Soulborgs at least believe they have souls.