The Book of Venom (Symbiote)

[Ronin]

I was trying to de-emphasize the "just bond with a Unique Hero you control at the outset" strategy by making it not that interesting, but clearly that hasn't entirely worked.

[Lord Pyre]

Originally Posted by Ronin

I was trying to de-emphasize the "just bond with a Unique Hero you control at the outset" strategy by making it not that interesting, but clearly that hasn't entirely worked.

+1 move and attack is HUGELY interesting.

[Ronin]

I wouldn't bother with it for 175 points, but maybe that's just me.

I think him having the potential to pop off friendly cards would open up strategies where he bonds with someone to carry him into the fight and get in range of enemy targets. Loses some of the "all your eggs in one basket" drawback, but opens up a little more variability and room to randomly fail early.

I'd be down to tweak Losing Control to:

At the end of each of your turns, if you control Venom's Host, you must roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 7 or lower, return control of the Host to the player that controlled it at the start of the game and place Venom on an empty space adjacent to the Host.

Trims some text, so that'd be a bonus. Does lose the nuance where the enemy can choose to keep the Host as the Host, but that's hard to retain in an elegant way, and it didn't come up in my games anyhow.

Probably I'd want to retitle it if he could also break up with a friendly that way.

[LordVenoc]

This guy might actually be a frightening start zone bomber against OM hub armies. You could pretty easily Indigo-1/Dr. Fate/Nightshade teleport the symbiote in and latch on to someone like Professor X or the like and really mess with things. Indigo-1 probably is the better pick because of the ease of bringing friendlies, but Nightshade could work nicely depending on your timing.

[Lord Pyre]

The thing is that it's an UNRESTRICTED extra move and attack. It stacks right on top of Cap and Crime Master, etc... Maybe not always worth it for the cost, but I could definitely see Punisher scary with it.

I think it'd be more fun and chaotic that way

Probably will drop his cost a bit too!

[Ronin]

Originally Posted by LordVenoc

This guy might actually be a frightening start zone bomber against OM hub armies. You could pretty easily Indigo-1/Dr. Fate/Nightshade teleport the symbiote in and latch on to someone like Professor X or the like and really mess with things. Indigo-1 probably is the better pick because of the ease of bringing friendlies, but Nightshade could work nicely depending on your timing.

Yeah, I could see that kind of strategy working - I thought about drafting him with Kang (II) so Kang could have a pocket symbiote. Didn't focus on it so much in the initial because it would have been a lot of points.

Originally Posted by Lord Pyre

The thing is that it's an UNRESTRICTED extra move and attack. It stacks right on top of Cap and Crime Master, etc... Maybe not always worth it for the cost, but I could definitely see Punisher scary with it.

I think it'd be more fun and chaotic that way

Probably will drop his cost a bit too!

I don't think it'll impact his price point. (EDIT: Mainly just because I still think the scissory stuff he can do will end up being a bigger deal than the friendly stat boosts - not that they're not good, just that you're paying a fair amount for them here). I'm down to make the tweak for fun/text-trimming reasons, though.

[Ronin]

SP updated. Note for the next tester - maybe at least one game where Venom gets carried up fast to bomb an enemy OM hub (like LV mentioned three posts up)? Thanks!

[Ronin]

Doing a little editing; partially because the tweak to Losing Control suggested by LP let me simplify the second power a bit, partially to handle edge cases like Doctor Strange (II) killing Venom while he's on a card, partially in response to questions from redstang, partially because I realized the first power didn't address LEAs.

How's this read? Think it's still okay length-wise (though I'd appreciate getting double-checked on that).

SYMBIOSIS
After taking a turn with Venom, you may place Venom on the card of an adjacent Unique Hero that is not an Android, Construct, or Symbiote and has not previously been Venom's Host. While Venom is on that card, that Hero is considered Venom's Host. Venom's Host has the species of Symbiote and the Super Strength special power in addition to what is listed on its card, and adds 1 to its Move and Attack numbers. Venom will not take leaving engagement attacks when placed with Symbiosis.

ASSERTING CONTROL
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and instead of taking a turn with Venom, if you control Venom's Host, take a turn with the Host. If you do not control Venom's Host, remove all Order Markers from the Host's card, take control of the Host, and take a turn with the Host. When Venom is destroyed or removed from the Host's card, return control of that Hero to the player that controlled it at the start of the game.

LOSING CONTROL 7
At the end of each of your turns, if you control Venom's Host, you must roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 7 or lower, place Venom on an empty space as close to the Host as possible.

[tcglkn]

Fits with plenty of room and looks good to my eyes.

[Ronin]

Awesome. Thanks for checking, Tickle.

[Ronin]

Test in from redstang:

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Venom Symbiote

Army Test
Map: Road Rampage (BOV)
Units: Team A: Venom Symbiote, Doctor Octopus (215) Viper, and Omega Red
Team B: Cable, Deadpool, Cyclops, Wolfsbane - 880 Points each

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Team A, Omega Red (2 Life Remaining) Doctor Octopus (All Life remaining, Venom Symbiote (All Life Remaining).


Both teams used Round 1 to advance towards each other on the battlefield.



Cyclops fired the first shot after taking the high ground on the bridge in Round 2 and placed 2 wounds on Viper. Omega Red than double attacked Cable and destroyed him and Viper took a turn with her Underworld Contract to place an auto wound on Cyclops with Poisoned Strike. On the third turn, Cable was skipped and Omega Red used his double attack to destroy Cyclops, Viper attacked Deadpool but failed to register a wound. Deadpool returns fire and destroys Viper.



Round 3 Deadpool wins initiative and moves into position. Doctor Octopus becomes Vemon's Host. Deadpool attacks Omega Red and inflicts 4 wounds. Omega Red returns the favor and inflicts a wound on Deadpool. Venom Rolls a 12 for Losing Control. Wolfsbane moves into position. Venom/Doc Oc moves and then attacks Deadpool with 4 attacks of 4 and inflicts 3 wounds. Venom Rolls a 14 for Losing Control.


Round 4 Deadpool wins initiative and attacks Omega Red, inflicting another wound. Omega Red returns the favor once again and inflicts a wound on Deadpool, Venom rolls an 18 for Losing Control. Wolfsbane moves again and Venom/Doc Oc attack Deadpool, destroying him with the 3rd attack roll, and rolls a 16 for Losing Control. Deadpool's turn is skipped and Venom Doc/Oc attack Wolfsbane, destroying her on the 3rd attack roll.

___________________________________________________________

Army Test
Map: Road Rampage (BOV)
Units: Team A: Venom Symbiote, Dr. Fate, Mister Sinister, Destiny, Emma Frost - 1,030 points
Team B: TMNT and Master Splinter - 1,030 points


Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes):TMNT; Donatello, Mikey, and Raph all finished with 0 wounds.


Shorter Summary here. Mister Sinister and Company shelled up and made the Turtles run the length of the battlefield while Sinister attempted to bonus up Emma and Destiny. Mister Sinister rolled for Manipulation 9 times and was only successful 3 times. Pretty bad showing from him. Dr. Fate Teleported Venom out of the starting zone to avoid the initial Turtle onslaught, only to teleport back in to allow Venom to take Mikey as his host. Venom was able to take three turns with Mikey, inflicting 3 wounds on Leo prior to losing control at the end of round 6. Leo won initiative for Round 7 and quickly exterminated the hostless Venom. Destiny and Emma didn't last long and Dr. Fate was able to play a game of catch me if you can with the turtles for a while, destroying Leo and Splinter before succumbing to the rest of the turtles.
THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: (fill in here)

GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT: I ran one test using Venom as a team booster and one test as a sabotage tactic. Obviously the booster strategy worked much better. Used properly as a team booster, he may very well be worth the 175 point draft value, but as a sabotage tactic he feels slightly over pointed. I think I've seen Purple Man have much better results and a higher rate of survivability for less points, granted not by many points.


I think raising Venom's defense to 3 or his life to 6 would be appropriate if wanting to stay at the 175 point level. If not paired with a carrier that doesn't require him to take a host, like Green Lantern or Dr. Fate, I think it could be difficult to get him into position without being destroyed, and if he does attach to a teammate, there is no telling if he would ever lose control and get the ability to take another host. Given that you will want to put him up against figures that are OM Hogs or double/triple attackers, he will be going into a heavy fire situation quite a bit.


I also noted that I had to burn an entire turn and allow the other team to take a turn after taking a host and prior to using Venom to remove the order markers and take a turn with the host. I'd much rather move with Venom, take a host, and remove OMs, then on the second turn, take a full turn with the Host.


Also, I was slightly confused by the wording of Asserting Control and Losing Control 7. I was unsure that even though Venom had taken a host if I should take the host card from the opposing player, or let the opposing player continue to place order markers knowing that I would wipe them out with Venom's turn. I think a little clarification is needed as to the mechanics of it all.


Overall, a fun design and very much mimics the "attaching parasite" theme of the recent movie.

[tcglkn]

Look like really solid tests from a first time tester.