Unit Strategy Review: How to use the Shaolin Monks

[ThrasherDarkrai]

I feel angry at him too. Who would DARE impersonate Nether, a great person of this community? That is just plain rude, and nasty. He even took his avatar! Naughty, naughty little boy!
Mind if I get the Stinger Rifle? I need target practice...

[bunjee]

The account, and the other account linked to it have been banned. I am deleting the misleading posts.

[ArcturusII]

Originally Posted by GreyOwl

No biggie, but just an FYI...Wudang is a Taoist temple in Southern China. The Shaolin were Buddhist, and from the Shaolin Temple in Northern China.

Updated.

Originally Posted by jcb231

One, the Shaolins can be very useful against figures that have to group to attack...you mention Roman Legion and other groupers, but don't forget Zombies and Ashigaru Yari. These figures will often encircle enemies to maximize their special attack. If they kill one of your figures, jump a monk into the deceased figure's vacant space, then unload your vengeful fists.

Second, just to clarify one of your points, a Monk can attack more than six figures at once in a crowded castle or an area with overhangs....it's rare, but six is not ehtier maximum number of attacks. I've done it and I've had it used against me. Think ladders and overhangs coupled with swarming rats or such. It's unusual, but it happens, and then the time is right for some Shaolin power. Again, it's rare...but possible and thus worth mentioning lest people think there is a cap of six on the attack.

Updated.

[darktrooper889]

Originally Posted by ArcturusII

Note, however, that you cannot use Stealth Leap to breach castle walls with battlements, as the battlements are 13 levels above ground and Stealth Leap has a maximum vertical reach of 12 levels.

I don't think so, doesn't the ability mean that the space they end on can't be more than 12 levels above their starting point?

[Tai-Pan]

In reference to a monk attacking rats, if the monk kills a rat and another one scatters into the previously occupied space, can the monk attack the new rat?

[Aldin]

Originally Posted by Tai-Pan

In reference to a monk attacking rats, if the monk kills a rat and another one scatters into the previously occupied space, can the monk attack the new rat?

Sure

~Aldin, advising all rodents to scatter away from the monks

[Piano_man]

But since most of the time the zombies will replace the space with a new zombie, unless none have died, then shaolin assault won't work.

[SuperflyTNT]

Please add:

"Shaolin Ashra Assault"
By alternating Ashra and Shaolin in turn order, lead with the Warriors of Ashra as the front wave soldiers, tying up enemies with their defensive abilities, and come behind them with Shaolin to make multiple attacks per turn while the enemy is engaged with the hard-to-kill Warriors of Ashra. This pairing is most effective against slow moving melee units such as the Sacred Band, Roman Legion and so on.

The magic in this strategy is to make very sure that the relatively fast Warriors can be placed at the foot of a hill that has several levels so that the Warriors give up height but ensure that the enemy is not on the highest level so that the Monks can leap over the fray behind the enemy and attack several targets at once. By giving up a level of height, you can lure multiple figures onto the adjacent, 1 level higher position, and the Shaolin can end up on an even higher level, adjacent to the opposing figures who grouped on the lower level to attack the Warriors, whose defensive ability mitigates most melee squad's height advantage to a large degree.

Drafting 3x Warriors (150 points) and 3x Shaolin (240 points) uses only 390 points and 18 spaces, allowing you to draft a hard-hitting Hero such as Moriko, a long-ranged standoff Hero such as Syvarris, or a ranged squad such as the Protetors of Ullar for 110 points in a 500 point skirmish. Even moreso if you are not restricted by generals, which allows you to draft even harder-hitting figures such as the dreaded Iron Golem or boost-bearing figures such as Raelin.

The major danger in this strategy lies in the fact that the Warriors are very vulnerable to ranged attacks and must survive long enough to tie up opposing melee squads.

[Lesur]

I'm not trying to be insulting and I apologise if I sound like it but when reading through the articles it is hilarious at the number of times I read something along the lines of 'Always have at least one order marker on this card.' and I would have to be using, at last count, 8 order markers just to follow those rules, not including any figure I'd wish to take several turns with.

[Aldin]

Originally Posted by Lesur

I'm not trying to be insulting and I apologise if I sound like it but when reading through the articles it is hilarious at the number of times I read something along the lines of 'Always have at least one order marker on this card.' and I would have to be using, at last count, 8 order markers just to follow those rules, not including any figure I'd wish to take several turns with.

That's fair. It really points out a couple of things as well. The key to Heroscape is Order Marker efficiency. Whoever gets the most value out of the placement of their Order Markers is generally going to win. Because of that, having an army with 8 cards upon which you might want to place Order Markers tends to be problematic.

As an example, let's imagine one army consisting of some squads of Knights of Weston backed by a number of Human Champions fighting against an army consisting of eight unique army cards. In any given round, every Order Marker on a Knight of Weston card guarantees 100% efficiency. It will always activate the Champion you want to use and the four figures you want to use. The eight card army runs the risk of having wasted Order Markers due to losses suffered on a card or poor battlefield positioning for the card that does get an activation.

That brings us to threat. A lot of the army cards in Heroscape are more frightening for what they CAN do as opposed to what they tend to actually do. NeGokSa can steal a card. Atlaga can assassinate. Dund can knock out Order Markers. All of these are threats in a round only when they can take a turn. So whenever a card has a high threat potential, such as the Monks, the recommendation is to keep an Order Marker there so that the opponent has to respect the threat they represent.

Combining that with the Order Marker management efficiency mentioned above, it becomes clear that most armies can really only afford one or perhaps two cards that are primarily threat-based, as opposed to having strong value on any given activation. So ultimately the recommendation is to really limit the total number of cards (well, technically, to limit the number of cards that need to have Order Markers placed on them - see Wizards, Elven) and especially to limit the number of cards that have situational use.

~Aldin, managerially

[dok]

A lot to dive into there; good stuff.

Originally Posted by Aldin

That's fair. It really points out a couple of things as well. The key to Heroscape is Order Marker efficiency. Whoever gets the most value out of the placement of their Order Markers is generally going to win. Because of that, having an army with 8 cards upon which you might want to place Order Markers tends to be problematic.

As an example, let's imagine one army consisting of some squads of Knights of Weston backed by a number of Human Champions fighting against an army consisting of eight unique army cards. In any given round, every Order Marker on a Knight of Weston card guarantees 100% efficiency. It will always activate the Champion you want to use and the four figures you want to use.

Whether this is really true depends on one's definition of 100% efficiency. Yes, you will (until you are reduced to zero champs or less than four squaddies) get full activations every turn. However, for the knights to truly be operating at peak efficiency, you need to be getting five productive (in the sense of the expectation of productivity) attacks each turn.

While Sir Gilbert eases things somewhat, one of the most difficult things for most players to manage when playing a melee army is to prevent their army from getting strung out, with a few figures up at the front while the rest are more than 1 full turn's move away from the fight. When you watch top melee players play, the thing that stands out (to me, anyway) is the patience they show when developing their board position. It's generally better for a melee army to absorb a few probing attacks on the front figures in early turns without responding, than it is to spend the entire game only attacking with 2 squad figures each turn because you are wasting activations getting figures into position.

Originally Posted by Aldin

The eight card army runs the risk of having wasted Order Markers due to losses suffered on a card or poor battlefield positioning for the card that does get an activation.

Originally Posted by Aldin

Combining that with the Order Marker management efficiency mentioned above, it becomes clear that most armies can really only afford one or perhaps two cards that are primarily threat-based, as opposed to having strong value on any given activation. So ultimately the recommendation is to really limit the total number of cards (well, technically, to limit the number of cards that need to have Order Markers placed on them - see Wizards, Elven) and especially to limit the number of cards that have situational use.

All of this is true to a point. And obviously 8 cards is a pretty extreme case. I don't believe I've ever gone into a classic 'scape game with that many cards to juggle. However, as you well know Aldin, I have played tournament games with 7 cards (Deathreavers x3, Ornak, Shurrak, Krug, Brunak, Marcu, Isamu). In the two games I played with that army*, I don't believe I ever ate an order marker. Sure, it's a challenge to juggle OMs like that, but it can be effective. It just takes experience in managing things. I find those unique mishmashes to be some of the most fun and challenging things to play.

Granted, the Deathreavers in that particular army do give you a lot of board control which makes it much easier to manage. @Jexik has said that Deathreavers "commonize" unique-heavy armies. I think that's more true when the attacking figures are ranged, but it has a ring of truth even in the case of the army I mention above.

Originally Posted by Aldin

That brings us to threat. A lot of the army cards in Heroscape are more frightening for what they CAN do as opposed to what they tend to actually do. NeGokSa can steal a card. Atlaga can assassinate. Dund can knock out Order Markers. All of these are threats in a round only when they can take a turn. So whenever a card has a high threat potential, such as the Monks, the recommendation is to keep an Order Marker there so that the opponent has to respect the threat they represent.

What's notable here is the nature of the threat. Honestly, I think some players live in fear of the wrong stuff. If you try to keep every big hero out of Atlaga's threat range, you are allowing him to warp the game more (on average) than if you just accept the risk and play the game. You're better off just risking it, unless your position is so strong that a lucky Atlaga strike is the only way you lose the game. Same goes for NGS and mindshackle.

On the other hand, the threat of some figures can be really strong. For example, if you have one of the shotgun cowboys and you are facing a Roman army, it's well worth an early OM to put Sullivan/Murphy into threat range for a shotgun blast. Then an "X" marker on the cowboy can be enough to make your opponent abandon Shield Wall and/or MDG's Soldier attack bonus. And if not, then go ahead and take a turn here or there to blast multiple Romans at once. It's not a bad turn.

* Wow, in seven games in that event, I only played my own armies three times (trons once and rats/utgarpodge twice). I played against my 'trons twice and against my rats/utgarpodge four times.

[Aldin]

dok,

Well, I picked 8 because that's how many OMs the OP said they needed to put one on each army card. As for the rest, sure, there are more advanced wrinkles on everything I wrote. I was addressing the more basic concern that I felt was raised by the post to which I responded. Namely, the idea that there were eight cards needing OMs.

And your seven card army is a smokescreen. Isamu almost doesn't count as he's almost always clean up and nearly universally ignored until the end stages of a match. Rats almost don't count since they are used to develop board position and then rarely get an OM. Marcu is another rare and situational OM who, like Isamu, is rarely targeted before end game. That leaves Ornak, Shurrak, Krug and Brunak. And you have three wrinkles built in there as well. Ornak is an OM1 activator of the rest of your heroes. Brunak is a carrier and Krug doesn't really need OMs until he's wounded.

So really, you have TONS of OM efficiency built into your seven cards. Like I mentioned with the Elf Wizards - technically, the goal is to reduce the number of places you want OMs, not the number of cards.

~Aldin, flexibly