TV: What Are You Watching?

[Hahma]

I watched the first episode of season 2 of Jessica Jones. Good stuff!

[IAmBatman]

"The OA "was pretty intriguing. I could see that perspective on the ending. Still, IMO, less of a gut punch than how "The End of the F**king World" went after being so fun and peppy early on.

Hoping to start on Jessica Jones this weekend. Watched season one with the wifey and it was one of our favorite things right away. The trailer for season two looks promising.

[Tornado]

Have you seen Another Earth(2011) Bats?
Also written and starring Brit Marling.
Check it out.

[IAmBatman]

I have not. Is that on a streaming service?

[Dad_Scaper]

About The End of the F***ing World:

Spoiler Alert!

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

"The OA "was pretty intriguing. I could see that perspective on the ending. Still, IMO, less of a gut punch than how "The End of the F**king World" went after being so fun and peppy early on.

I thought doom was hanging over The End of the F*** World from pretty early on. It was clear even from the first episode that nothing was safe, for the audience, and that a traditional "happy ending" was less and less likely as the story went on.

I thought the ending was devastating emotionally, I'll agree it was a "gut punch," but it was not unfair to us as the viewing audience. It followed naturally from the development of the story and the characters in it.

It was a beautiful little gem of a show, I thought.

I'm 2 episodes in on JJ Season 2 already. High hopes, because it was the best of all the Netflix MCU shows so far, IMHO. I put DD 1 and The Punisher as close 2d and 3d, and the others more neatly ordered afterward, and not in the same league. (The order being DD2, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, and The Defenders.)

I can't remember if I've given this as my official Ranking of Netflix MCU shows here:

1. JJ
2. DD
3. Punisher
4. DD2
5. Luke Cage
6. Iron Fist
7. The Defenders

I didn't think any of them were bad, but from DD2 on down the list, I didn't think any were as special as the top 3. Here is my ordering of how much I like the depictions of the heroes, which is helpful for managing my expectations:

1. Krysten Ritter's Jessica Jones
2. Mike Colter's Luke Cage
3. John Bernthal's Punisher
4. Charlie Cox's Daredevil
5. Sean Finn's Iron Fist

Mike Colter and Krysten Ritter are both *so* perfect in their roles that everyone else is, at best, trying to keep up. Cox as Daredevil is wonderful, but I would like a little less breathiness and angst in his Matt Murdock. The scene in The Defenders when Jessica Jones takes a beer from a sleeping homeless guy is gold.

[IAmBatman]

To DS:

Spoiler Alert!

I don't disagree with your analysis, but part of me was still hoping for a sliver of romantic escapism, I guess. It sucks falling in love with wonderful characters and then having the story get all non-traditional with them. I'm not saying the ending was bad or unearned - quite the contrary. Just part of me wishes it went a different way.

[Dad_Scaper]

I ninja'ed in a big edit, Bats. I'm curious for your thoughts on the Netflix MCU, if you want to respond to that part.

[IAmBatman]

I do, actually. I haven't gotten to watch JJ2 yet, but JJ1 is in a tier of its own for me. It just is. Such wonderful characterization, the best Marvel villain anywhere (with apologies to Kingpin, Killmonger and the rest, Tennant's Purple Man is just the most incredibly realized supervillain), and perfect casting, as you mentioned. For a character I have almost zero comic book experience with other than having read an issue or two of New Avengers a decade or so ago, they just blew me away. And brownie points for my wife loving it and being eager to watch it with me. That never hurts.

After that I'd probably actually put Daredevil 1 and 2 and Defenders all in a tight scrum of tier 2. DD1 probably had better stuff for Daredevil himself, but I feel the surrounding cast gets better in DD2 (deeper role for Elektra, great Punisher story, great stuff from the baddies, jailhouse Kingpin is a revelation, and DD's personal life crumbling keeps Foggy and company interesting to me).

The best part of DD1, to me, was the "I am the ill-intent" speech. Quite possibly the best villain monologue ... ever? Phenomenal action too, which really set a great tone for this line of Marvel TV.

I suppose the villain stuff in DD1 was a bit tighter too, but more Elektra and Punisher are a good tradeoff for the slightly choppier villain plots of DD2.

Defenders finds a role for Danny Brand that I like him in (that guy that makes everyone else roll their eyes a bit). It makes his character work much better than he does as a headliner, IMO. And all of the character interactions are fun. Jessica does feel a bit "less" of herself when she has to put up with all of the other characters, but they all benefit from being in the presence of her wit, and I love how they don't toss aside all of the major supporting characters, but include them in the fun.

Then Luke Cage is very solid in the next slot (but the lack of a sustained great villain to the end of the show hurt that one, IMO, as did the romance when I'm a Cage/JJ shipper). Loved the "Hail to the Chief" song in the club, though, as a small side note.

I ... haven't finished Punisher yet. Part of it is having a toddler, part of it is just not finding the character that likeable as a protagonist. I'll get back to it some time, but I'll give it an incomplete for now. Still, I listed it before getting to Iron Fist. Why?

Cuz while Punisher has been "meh" to me about four or five episodes in, Iron Fist straight up sucked at times. Specifically about half of the first episode was plodding, pointless, expositional crap that didn't seem to trust its viewer in the same way as JJ and DD. Add in that Danny is Mr. Spoiled 1% and if it weren't for a solid supporting cast and the pedigree of the overall story universe, I might not have made it through. Still, I like Coleen, and Danny became tolerable when I just told myself they were making these character choices intentionally and of course he's a bratty douche who thinks that money solves everything and is terrible with empathy and communication - that's a realistic take on the character. The most difficult of the four heroes to root for, though, IMO. Maybe of the five, if you count Punisher (though I struggle with calling him a "hero").

I think what it boils down to is I like Punisher and Iron Fist both in stories where they don't have to act as the main protagonist, because, like Electra actually, I like them to toe the line between someone I'm willing to root for and someone I want to see taken down. It fits their characters both in how they've been portrayed in the comics and on the shows. But if the series is all about them, my not liking them makes it harder to follow their individual adventures.

But JJ? I'll follow her down every street she names.

[japes]

For me the top tier is JJ1 and then Punisher. I thought they were both excellent and by the end I loved the characters. My wife also liked both of these.

DD1 is next with Luke Cage first half

DD 2

Defenders

Luke Cage second half and Iron fist are down at the bottom.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

See, I disagree about Iron Fist but I think it's because of my prior knowledge of the character. Danny's interaction with the world when he returns makes sense because he only has a child's understanding of our world, since he'd been raised in an ancient city in another dimension since he was a child. His childish, spoiled behavior makes sense when you realize that the world moved on without him for 20 ish years. 20 years ago we had no social media, few had cell phones and AOL was our connection to the Internet, just to shine a light on things. Now imagine that your understanding of that world froze as you grew because you no longer interacted in that world. I think Danny is complex in his simplicity and I felt they were definitely building to something in Season 1. It turns out it was Defenders, which I really liked because they found real story driven reasons for them to draw together, interact, and then go their separate ways. Jessica was the only one who I didn't feel like they furthered her story much, but her letting people in was still good character development.

[IAmBatman]

I totally agree with Danny's characterization making sense. He had good story reasons for acting like an entitled brat. But that doesn't mean following an entitled brat as the protagonist of the story is appealing.

[Dad_Scaper]

Comments about some of the above:

1) Splitting Luke Cage into its two halves makes sense, and it highlights the importance of having a quality villain from a poor one. We see the same thing come back in The Defenders, when neither principal villain is credible, for different reasons. Sigourney Weaver is sadly wasted (and/or lost) in her part. David Tennant and Vincent D'Onofrio show it's done, chewing up the scenery and making their shows brilliant. I think that's especially important for Daredevil, because the Matt Murdock character is kind of boring.

2) Danny's character is kind of boring also. And annoying. And I understand that he's coming back to a world that's unfamiliar to him, but surely he's developed *some* kind of monk-like calmness or stillness or discipline in all those years. I liked Iron Fist more than many others did, but his character is not good.

3) The Defenders principally featured him and unworthy villains. That wasn't good.

4) Bats' criticism of The Punisher is fair. It's different from the others and will not be for everyone.