Most Overrated Unit

[Izner]

Originally Posted by dok

I think stingers are the only figure that can really compete with Q9 in the "swiss army knife" competition.

How so? I love the Stingers, but I'm not seeing the swiss army knife in them.

[dok]

Originally Posted by Izner

How so? I love the Stingers, but I'm not seeing the swiss army knife in them.

Short answer: one of the top main event armies last year was Raelin + Stingers x7 (+Marcu). I could stop there and basically consider my argument adequate. But to flesh it out:

- 3 defense and relative cheapness means they can be used as glyph grabbers, to rush up and engage KMA, or in other relatively expendable ways. They're not as good in this role as the rats, but they're better than most.

- 3 attacks of 3+ means they are effective against common squads. They're not quite as good in this role as knights+champions or 4th Mass, but they're close.

- Range and juicing means they are effective heavy hitters against tough heroes. They're not quite as good in this role as Krug or a handful of others, but they're close.

I'm not sure any figure does all three of those things as well as the the stingers do all three of them.

[Jexik]

Originally Posted by SuperflyTNT

I agree, but if you look at the winningest armies, Q9 is rarely among them.

What?

I think we'd see Q9 winning more tournaments if more people played him. A lot seem to want to win with something new.

[Matthias Maccabeus]

I think this thread is very interesting. I like to read what unit or units people think are overrated, underrated etc. I think it really comes down to 2 things, which several of you have alluded to already. Your playing style and your understanding of the game.

For instance dok mentioned the stingers being the best "swiss" army knife, and if anybody reads the posts here on 'scapers, you would see that many people tend to agree with him.

I however think the stingers are a B unit at best and are the most overrated units in this game. Mainly because I play knights quite often and Knights > stingers. I've only ever lost 1 out of 10 tournament games to stingers and that loss was because Hawthorne tunred on me, not because of the stingers.

The units that I fear most are WoA (thank goodness nobody ever brings them to tourneys!) and Charos (ask Jexik about that one) / Samurai. And of course rats! I believe these units are underrated, but of course that's more becaue of my play-style tendencies.

If I played something else like Sentinels all the time, I would probably think that Braxas and the hounds are underrated, etc.

[dok]

Originally Posted by Matthias Maccabeus

I however think the stingers are a B unit at best and are the most overrated units in this game. Mainly because I play knights quite often and Knights > stingers. I've only ever lost 1 out of 10 tournament games to stingers and that loss was because Hawthorne tunred on me, not because of the stingers.

Excellent point about what you play influencing your feelings on over/underrated. The knights are almost certainly the best figure against stingers - knights own stingers. Stingers and rats have a decent chance against knights, though.

[Jexik]

What would the MM rankings (Knights and their worst matchups combined with MM's perceptions) look like?

A+
Knights of Weston
Sir Gilbert
Warriors of Ashra
Deathreavers
Gladiatrons
Blastatrons

A
Alastair MacDirk
Eldgrim
Krav Maga Agents
Marro Warriors
Raelin
Charos
Isamu
Heavy Gruts
Izumi Samurai
Tagawa Samurai

A-
Major Q9 (would be higher, but range is for little girls)
Grimnak
Krug
Arrow Gruts
Mimring
Swog Rider
Nerak
Sir Hawthorne
Finn
4th Massachusetts Line
10th Regiment of Foot
Marcus Decimus Gallus
Tagawa Samurai Archers

B+
Thorgrim....

[Xn F M]

Originally Posted by Jexik

What would the MM rankings (Knights and their worst matchups combined with MM's perceptions) look like?

Don't forget those pesky Nakitas. They're far better that the kravs if you're playing against a melee army.

[SuperflyTNT]

Hey, I play the WoA all the time and have some success with them as well, provided they're under Raelin's aura until they engage the Knights.

WoA v. Knights...WoA will win 7/10 times, in my opinion. WoA are even better than rats, in my opinion, because of the fact that they can actually be effective hitters AND they can be summoned en masse by Emiroon.

They are indeed underrated, but they need to have certain armies with them to be effective, and this is not entirely conducive to a winning tournament army, IMO.

[ParaGoomba Slayer]

Originally Posted by Simpsons Scaper

True, 1 vs. 1 Jotun can kill Q9, but Jotun is more expensive then Q and could wasily be tied down by a squad of 'Reavers, 1 by 1 by 1. Q9 makes attacks of 4-5 (Hight) and down goes Jotun!

While Jotun does cost more than Q9, he will end up killing more than just Q9.

Originally Posted by dok

To me, the "Q9's attack isn't potent enough" argument is sort of laughable. Three attacks of 3 is a good offensive turn, period. Are there better offensive turns? Sure. Can the KMA out-do them if your opponent gives up height? Yeah. Can Nilfheim do better if he has multiple targets? Yeah. Can knights plus bonding deliver five similar attacks, in stead of three? Yeah. But 3 attacks of 3 is good. What makes Q9 such a powerhouse is that that perfectly decent attack round is backed up by 4 life and 7 defense.

3 attacks of 3 is not a good offensive turn, it's just average. 3 attacks of 4 is good, and 4 attacks of 3 is good, but 3 attacks of 3 is just "meh". If I want 3 attacks of 3, I'd pick 3 squads of Drones for 30 points less.

[ParaGoomba Slayer]

Double post. Sorry.

[Simpsons Scaper]

Originally Posted by ParaGoomba Slayer

While Jotun does cost more than Q9, he will end up killing more than just Q9.

Q9 will also kill more then just Jotun (If you use the 'Reaver strategy. Plus, 1 well-placed squad of KMA can easily make Jotun go down! I've seen Jotun die in 2 attacks of 4! This is rare, but 6 or 7 attacks of 4 from the KMA will take him down. If you use a good hit and run strategy, you can easily do that against Jotun (I know, I've done it, and had it used against me).

[pti8]

Q9's is a special attack though. And, as we all know, special attacks bypass so many abilities. Also 4 attack 7 defense and 8 range are nothing to sneeze at.