Wyvern & Lava

[Granite-M]

Originally Posted by Chardris

What this discussion seems to be boiling down to is:

Follow the letter of the rules

Or,

Follow the spirit of the rules

The problem is that the letter of the rules seems to not address either side. The letter of the rules is ambiguous, at best.

It seems to be boiling down to "Which phrase should be errata-ed in?"

A: If the Wyvern dies upon landing, then its chosen figure is not Talon Grabbed.

or

B: Talon Grab takes place regardless of whether or not the Wyvern survives landing.

EDIT: Also, "seems...seems...seems." We need more synonyms.

Seem: assume, be suggestive of, convey the impression, create the impression, give the feeling of, give the idea of, have the appearance of, have the aspects of, have the earmarks of, have the features of, have the qualities of, hint, imply, insinuate, intimate, look, look as if, look like, look to be, make a show of, pretend, resemble, show, show every sign of, sound, sound like, strike one as being, suggest

[Grungebob]

If I had to rule on this I would say that it is doable. The reason is that you do not roll for lava until you stop. At this point you have ended your move and must place the grabbed figure and then roll the D20. This is not a ruling, just my reasoning that I would be using if such a question required a ruling.

[fomox]

Originally Posted by killercactus

That stuff quoted from Rÿchean a few posts up seems to suggest that it doesn't work.

I thought Ry was mostly addressing Oncara's very different question. (You can't land on the guy you're moving.)

[killercactus]

Originally Posted by fomox

I thought Ry was mostly addressing Oncara's very different question. (You can't land on the guy you're moving.)

Maybe he is - I didn't see anything in that thread.

Is the "chosen" vs. "affected" thing a valid comparison? For some reason, I keep thinking in my mind that it makes sense to compare it here, but when I try and spell out an argument, I got nothing.

[cmgames]

Actually, I think the debate is answered a few posts back where someone quoted the lava rules:

When a figure moves onto a molten lava space, you must roll
for molten lava damage.

So the lava damage occurs during movement, but the figure is moved after movement ends. If the Wyvern dies during movement, it can never end it's movement to trigger the Talon Grab.

~Z

[killercactus]

Originally Posted by cmgames

Actually, I think the debate is answered a few posts back where someone quoted the lava rules:

So the lava damage occurs during movement, but the figure is moved after movement ends. If the Wyvern dies during movement, it can never end it's movement to trigger the Talon Grab.

~Z

But right above that it says that molten lava is the same as water, and the rules for water state that as soon as you move a figure onto a water space, the move ends.

[Granite-M]

Ah, but Talon Grab reads:

While this Wyvern is flying, you may choose one opponent's small or medium figure that it passed over this turn. Place the chosen figure on an empty same-level space adjacent to this Wyvern at the end of its move.

The unit is chosen for grabbing while the Wyvern is flying, and surely the Wyvern isn't rolling for Lava Damage before it lands on the lava.

[ZBeeblebrox]

Which comes first?

The chicken or the egg??

Hot Lave Death or Talon Grab??

These are the questions of the universe....

[Grim]

Well how about this: can a unit with SLITHER keep moving after it moves onto molten lava, if it survives the molten lava damage roll? I think the answer is yes. Molten Lava is treated like water, and SLITHER means you don't have to stop on water, so it means you don't have to stop on lava either (but you do have to roll for death of course).

I think this demonstrates that the molten lava damage roll is (or should be) considered "before" the "end of movement". Because the movement phase might not be over.

So I stand by the Wyvern should roll for lava first. If it survives, it can place the chosen figure.

[Rÿchean]

Originally Posted by Granite-M

Ah, but Talon Grab reads:

The unit is chosen for grabbing while the Wyvern is flying, and surely the Wyvern isn't rolling for Lava Damage before it lands on the lava.

Yes, the figure is chosen while the wyvern is in flight. However, the chosen figure is not moved from its location until the Wyvern ends it's movement.

I beleive you guys have already arrived at the correct interpretation, the one supported by the rules and the timing mechnics in the game. Now, it is just a matter of accepting it.

[Grim]

Originally Posted by Grim

Molten Lava is treated like water

Heh. Follow-up fun:

Molten Lava is treated like water except for the lava damage roll. Greater Ice Elemental turns water to ice. If a GIE moves onto molten lava and survives hot lava death, those lava spaces and any adjacent are considered ice, right?

From that point forward, right? No more lava damage rolls, RIGHT?

[Aldin]

Schreodinger's Wyvern

~Aldin, thinking this argument has potential