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C3G Legacy Library This is the archive for all the designs released in the original era of C3G. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.


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  #49  
Old May 29th, 2020, 07:56 PM
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Re: Black Lantern (Crispus Allen) - Public Playtesting Phase

Sounds like good tweaks. I’d recommend future testers use Black Lantern armies too, since that seems like his strongest build.
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  #50  
Old May 29th, 2020, 08:40 PM
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Re: Black Lantern (Crispus Allen) - Public Playtesting Phase

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Originally Posted by Arch-vile View Post
Sounds like good tweaks. I’d recommend future testers use Black Lantern armies too, since that seems like his strongest build.
Yep, and that makes me really happy. I was worried he was going to end up needing Jason in his strongest builds or something, so glad he ended up this way.

Definitely seems like Scar unlocks him to the fullest (like Kilowog with GLs).

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  #51  
Old June 3rd, 2020, 03:51 PM
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Re: Black Lantern (Crispus Allen) - Public Playtesting Phase

Anything special you want to see? More Scar testing?
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  #52  
Old June 3rd, 2020, 03:55 PM
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Re: Black Lantern (Crispus Allen) - Public Playtesting Phase

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrNobody View Post
Anything special you want to see? More Scar testing?
Yeah, I think Scar would be key going forward. I'd like to see her in both tests if you're game.

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DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #53  
Old June 4th, 2020, 06:07 PM
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Re: Black Lantern (Crispus Allen) - Public Playtesting Phase

Quote:
C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Black Lantern (Spectre)

Army Test 1
Map: Island Plane Crash (Glyph of Wannok)
Units: Team 1 (1,250): BL Spectre (475), Black Hand (475), Scar (300)
Team 2 (1,250): X-Men: First Class (1,000), Psylocke (250)


Pre-game thoughts: 3 big powerhouses up against the X-Men, with Spectre being able to jump directly to Xavier.

Summary of the game:
Spoiler Alert!

Post-game thoughts: Spectre had a pretty immense gameplay impact here that I don’t feel fully shines through in a standard write-up. His Gaze ability was incredibly effective - just cause of how the game turned out, he always had at least 1 marker to threaten the enemy with. This severely hurt the more melee-ranged units (Beast, Psylocke) and in the late game, he had a lot of control over where the remaining enemies (Jean, Psylocke) went and what they did, basically forcing Jean into desperation kiting.

This was definitely a good match-up for the BLs, and winning initiative every time while Scar was on the battlefield (but then losing it every time after she died!) helped them get in a lot of free wounds that softened up the enemy a fair bit. Still, I think he’s incredibly good, especially against any unit that wants to get up close and personal.
1 game in, and I feel like he's coming in pretty hot. Do you want me to make any changes before running a second test?
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  #54  
Old June 4th, 2020, 07:37 PM
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Re: Black Lantern (Crispus Allen) - Public Playtesting Phase

Since it doesn't seem like the Scar powering up thing even happened here, I'm a tad worried, but it might just be the particular match up, since he didn't come in this strong in my tests without Scar, and Scar didn't power him up any here.

Still, Nobody and I are planning to rerun this one on TTS on Friday night and then I'll decide my feelings a bit better after that. Should give me a good idea if it's more of a fluke/bad match up, or if he's just in need of a points boost/depowering (I'd lean towards points boost, as 475 is on the low-end of where he could be thematically, I think).

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #55  
Old June 5th, 2020, 10:24 PM
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Re: Black Lantern (Crispus Allen) - Public Playtesting Phase

Oh, man, X-Men hate themselves some Black Lanterns (though my dice may hate me more). I thought I had a shot there for a bit, but the Scar/Spectre combo is just too much. I'm going to make some suggestions in the Scar thread, since Spectre really doesn't feel overpowered without him, IMO, but I also want to take the range of Gaze of Death down to 2 here and max it at 2 makers since it's so easy for Scar to recharge him, and I want to up his points to 575 and go from there.

This one might require some additional testing as I'm trying to avoid ending up with an overpowered Black Lantern grouping and him, Scar, and Black Hand for 1300 was really nasty.

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #56  
Old June 5th, 2020, 10:45 PM
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Re: Black Lantern (Crispus Allen) - Public Playtesting Phase

Talked it over with some folks and looked at the Index and realized that regular Spectre is Range 1, Attack 5. So I've decided to drop to Range 2, Attack 5 here as well and try him at 525 instead of 575.

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #57  
Old June 5th, 2020, 10:52 PM
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Re: Black Lantern (Crispus Allen) - Public Playtesting Phase

Here's some quick notes I took while playing in case anybody wants to look through the results. (Probably missing a few things here and there, I was really more focused on playing than note taking.)

Spectre did a metric crapton of damage for his 6+1 attack (He went One Punch Man on Iceman), and that was a big deciding factor. But I also really struggle to see the X-Men being able to bypass the BL's survivability, even on a good day.
Spoiler Alert!
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  #58  
Old June 7th, 2020, 12:34 AM
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Re: Black Lantern (Crispus Allen) - Public Playtesting Phase

Quote:
C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Black Lantern (Spectre)

Army Test 1
Map: Island Plane Crash (Glyph of Wannok)
Units: Team 1 (1,250): BL Spectre (475), Black Hand (475), Scar (300)
Team 2 (1,250): X-Men: First Class (1,000), Psylocke (250)


Pre-game thoughts: 3 big powerhouses up against the X-Men, with Spectre being able to jump directly to Xavier.

Summary of the game:
Spoiler Alert!

Post-game thoughts: Spectre had a pretty immense gameplay impact here that I don’t feel fully shines through in a standard write-up. His Gaze ability was incredibly effective - just cause of how the game turned out, he always had at least 1 marker to threaten the enemy with. This severely hurt the more melee-ranged units (Beast, Psylocke) and in the late game, he had a lot of control over where the remaining enemies (Jean, Psylocke) went and what they did.

This was definitely a good match-up for the BLs, and winning initiative every time while Scar was on the battlefield (but then losing it every time after she died!) helped them get in a lot of free wounds that softened up the enemy a fair bit. Still, I think he’s incredibly good, especially against any unit that wants to get up close and personal.
___________________________________________________________

Army Test 2
Map: Island Plane Crash (Glyph of Wannok)
Units: Team 1 (1,300): BL Spectre (525), Black Hand (475), Scar (300)
Team 2 (1,300): Iron Man MkV (280), Iron Man MkIII (220), Hulkbuster Iron Man (360), Thorbuster Iron Man (440)


Pre-game thoughts: Going up against some heavy hitters that may have a better chance of taking down the BLs. Figuring MkV will go down fairly fast to Spectre, but hopefully he can get a round or two of being useful in.

Summary of the game:
Spoiler Alert!

Post-game thoughts: Definitely feeling better, but still a tough nut to crack. MkV dying so soon was a bit of a bummer - I was hoping he could stall Spectre through at least the end of Round 2.
___________________________________________________________

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: This trio is pretty tough, but it definitely feels like Spectre is on the right track. Gaze of Death is a terrifying ability, but the bump down to 5 attack and the decrease in range (both on his attack and GoD) make him feel a lot more reasonable.

It might be better in the long run to just tank the GoD as early as possible and stop letting Spectre control your figure placement, but that always leaves the potential for him to recharge.


GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT: I do dig this design. He’s scary, just like BL Spectre should be, but I think we’re getting him to where he feels more manageable.
Here you go!
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  #59  
Old June 7th, 2020, 10:20 AM
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Re: Black Lantern (Crispus Allen) - Public Playtesting Phase

Sweet! Thanks! Seems like we're moving in the right direction at least. Glad we didn't over-nerf, though I'm a tad concerned to still see a big win after the changes! I guess we'll see what happens in fret's and go from there.

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #60  
Old June 8th, 2020, 06:50 PM
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Re: Black Lantern (Crispus Allen) - Public Playtesting Phase

Hmm, well two more wins, but closer, at least (2 Life Scar and 3 Life Scar). His analysis is that Black Hand is worth more than BL Spectre, which is also promising.

Any thoughts on how to best go from here? More tests? I'd love if we could keep him at 525, but not married to that if we need to boost him some.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fret_gurglo
NAME = BLACK LANTERN
SECRET IDENTITY = CRISPUS ALLEN

SPECIES = UNDEAD
UNIQUENESS = EVENT HERO
CLASS = REVENANT
PERSONALITY = VENGEFUL
SIZE/HEIGHT = HUGE 8

LIFE = 12
MOVE = 4
RANGE = 2
ATTACK = 5
DEFENSE = 6
POINTS = 525

GAZE OF DEATH 2
Start the game with 2 black Battery Markers on this card. Black Lantern may never have more than 2 black Battery Markers on this card. If an opponent's figure without the Fearless personality ends its movement within 2 clear sight spaces of Black Lantern, you may remove a black Battery Marker from this card. If you do, inflict a wound on that figure and that opponent's turn immediately ends.

HAUNTING
Black Lantern may move through all figures and never takes leaving engagement attacks. At the end of each round, you may place Black Lantern on any empty space on the battlefield where he is adjacent to an opponent’s figure.

RING CHARGE OF DEATH 16
If an enemy figure that is not an Android, Construct, or Undead would be destroyed by Black Lantern's attack or special power, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 16 or higher, place a black Battery Marker on each Black Lantern card you control, if possible.

SUPER STRENGTH

FLYING













Army Test
Map: Swamp Lab
Units: Black Hand (475), Black Spectre (525), Scar (300) (1300) vs Black Bolt (380), Crystal (225), Karnak (190), Lockjaw (155), Medusa (370) (1320)

Powers Used:
Gaze of Death: 1
Haunting (no LEA): 1
Haunting (Teleport): 2
Ring of Charge: 1
Ring of Charge(Success): 0

Damage from normal attacks: 13

Abbr: SG = Scarred Guardian
BH9= Black Hand 9

Spoiler Alert!

___________________________________________________________
Army Test
Map: Swamp Lab
Units: Black Hand (475), Black Lantern x4 (700) Black Spectre (525), Scar (300) (2000) vs Batman (250), Cyborg (230), Green Lantern (Hal) (350), Martian Manhunter (420), Superman (440), Wonder Woman (310) (2000)

Powers Used:
Gaze of Death: 1
Haunting (no LEA): 0
Haunting (Teleport): 4
Ring of Charge: 1
Ring of Charge(Success): 1

Damage from normal attacks: 3

Abbr: SG = Scarred Guardian
BH9= Black Hand 9
JL= Justice League Marker


Spoiler Alert!


___________________________________________________________


THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: If I had to choose between Crispus Allen or William Hand for a build in my army, it would always be William Hand. They have similar scores, including Life if you use battery markers for extra Life on William Hand. The big difference is Ring Charge vs Blackest Night. Ring Charge has a much greater chance of failure AND it cannot take control of figures. On top of this, William Hand is 50 points less. In the end, his team won both games, but I still think he is overcost when comparing to William Hand.


GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT: I like the difference in using the battery markers for this Black Lantern.

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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