The Book of Ravager (Rose Wilson)

[japes]

I also feel that if you did a match with NW, Raven, SF, Changeling and Ravager vs Ravager, NW and either Raven OR SF, + other Titans...The first team wins 80% of the times if big luck isn't involved.

[MrNobody]

It's fine if a faction is a 'win big/lose big' deal, but I've never really seen much of the 'lose big' with the Titans. SW's comment basically reads to me as "When the Titans are winning, they tend to win even more." Which is a sentiment I agree with, fwiw, but it's not exactly a claim that they're balanced.

I appreciate Ark's offer to run an additional set of sanity tests, as long as they're actually taken into consideration. I trust his opinion.

Originally Posted by japes

So if you are in a powerful faction you should always error on the side of overcosted despite what the figures does...got it. As long as we stay consistent.

I mean...my opinion is yeah, kinda? If Nightwing, Starfire, Raven, Changeling, and Ravager is worth 1,010 points, that's what they should be costed as as a group, and unless we're going to go back and re-eval any of those 4 finished designs, that kinda has to come from Ravager. It sucks, but that's why we should be extra vigilant and cautious before things become unbeatable metagame combos in the first place.

Problem comes in when you have a design like Rose here that's meant to fit into multiple factions. So if she's bearing a 'Titan tax' will that mean she feels sub-optimal in a Deathstroke Family build? That's the kind of stuff I don't have a straight-forward answer for.

[japes]

Then that’s where we have a philosophical difference. I think a cards cost should be based on what that card is worth.

And since we have no issues changing a bunch of cards then why don’t we just adjust the cards that are providing all the value.

Then perhaps we can get to a point someday where every single Titans build isn’t the same four cards plus whoever. Because right now it’s hard to even design

[MrNobody]

To clarify, I'm not strongly opposed to popping open the hood on the faction as a whole. "Unless we're going to go back and re-eval any of those 4 finished designs" wasn't intended sarcastically or anything, if we feel that's needed, that's okay by me. I just know I'm not the one to spearhead it.

[Arkham]

Sounds like it'd be wise to try her in non-Titan games then if we're just going to pass off Titans wins as simply Titans being Titans. Because if she is contributing to it and worth more than 210, the last thing we need is to worsen the issue.

[Karat]

Let me put it this way, 210 is my ceiling here. I'd rather adjust than go higher but I really don't feel that of her own merit she is worth more than that anyways.

[tcglkn]

I’m just not understanding the drop to 200 after the initial when she dealt more damage than her points worth every game and then she won every game from that point on. Really just seems like she is worth 220 points at least as she is.

[IAmBatman]

Way too much drama over 10 points. Shades of Balder. I’m checking out of this one. Not worth it to me.

[japes]

Originally Posted by Arkham

I can run a set if desired, but I'd want to be sure that the set would actually matter in terms of deciding on a cost.

I missed this part sorry ark.

Originally Posted by Arkham

Sounds like it'd be wise to try her in non-Titan games then if we're just going to pass off Titans wins as simply Titans being Titans. Because if she is contributing to it and worth more than 210, the last thing we need is to worsen the issue.

I know personally, if you did it would matter to me but I'm not the LD. If you said she was too hot at 210 seems like Karat isn't opposed to a change. At the end of the day I just want her to be accurately costed for what she does since she’s not just slotted for Titan armies.

Originally Posted by Karat

Let me put it this way, 210 is my ceiling here. I'd rather adjust than go higher but I really don't feel that of her own merit she is worth more than that anyways.

[Karat]

Originally Posted by Arkham

Sounds like it'd be wise to try her in non-Titan games then if we're just going to pass off Titans wins as simply Titans being Titans. Because if she is contributing to it and worth more than 210, the last thing we need is to worsen the issue.

I agree 100% but my stance is simply that I don't want to go above 210 here. I'd just rather make adjustments than shoehorn her somewhere where she isn't a great fit in her thematic play groups.

I'm definitely trying to take it all into consideration, I'm just not willing to finish her at 220, I'd rather make adjustments to keep her lower if that is what is necessary.

[MrNobody]

What are some potential tweaks we could make? I can agree that 220 feels a little high thematically. She's a good fighter with mild powers, but she's not one of the "peak human" combatants we tend to put at that 220-240 level. I might go for -1 Defense, since she already has a defensive power.

[Karat]

First one I'd probably do is Move down to 5. Sure she's Agile, but that's already kind of shown in FS.