The New York City Gang Of Four

[Tornado]

The Hand Ninja, IMO is one of the most 'classic' designs in C3G and would meld nicely with original Heroscape giving the Ninja faction a nice boost, especially Shiori.

[kolakoski]

Well met!

Originally Posted by Johngee

GREAT read. Thanks for posting these planning discussions and After Action Reports (AAR's). &obtw: I initially got 3x Hand Ninjas to use as proxies for the Ninjas of the North Wind squad, but have since converted them to a reinforcing duplicate squad aptly named Ninjas of the Southerly Breeze.

Originally Posted by Tornado

The Hand Ninja, IMO is one of the most 'classic' designs in C3G and would meld nicely with original Heroscape giving the Ninja faction a nice boost, especially Shiori.

Thanks for posting!

You're welcome. I enjoy writing about my projects (too much, undoubtedly). Constantly posting about tweaking my Heroscape Traveller map, and the 16 Card Draft I'm playing on it. All a work in progress . . .

I'm not certain I'll be taking the Hand Ninjas to Jamaca, but I agree that C3V/SoV should just adopt them as is.

[Tornado]

I believe there are no Assassins in classic, so that part could be dropped for simplicity but I totally agree.

[chas]

REPORT ON THE TWO GAMES OF "IS GENERAL TSO CHICKEN?"

Played on Wednesday Sept. 14, the experiment was a success. While I'd make a few changes to the scenario itself, my blended rules worked just fine. Here in Brooklyn we like Scape, and I wanted to make AOTP an expansion while keeping to the original game's rules as much as possible, still using order marker and etc. (Others down in the AOTP subforum are doing the opposite, so you can choose either type of system, to play or modify for your own games). I'll be making some small editing changes to my own rules down there in the Blender section on my thread.

Rather than even try to present a 10 page detailed Battle Report, this outline will mention a few issues and ideas to help you play your own blended game, with or without this specific scenario.

The 600 Point Scape armies chosen for Game #1 will be presented here after a random roll determined the team alliances which would be kept for both games. Although I never did point it out to them, one side of the board had some white and the other some black trim and terrain, so let's name each alliance by the side it fought on:

THE WHITE ALLIANCE

CHAS (C.)
General Sonlen
Syvarris
Morsbane
Sharwin Wildborn
Kentela Gwyn
Warriors of Ashra x2

TAEBLEWALKER (TW)
General Major Q9
Q10
Marrden Hounds x3

THE BLACK ALLIANCE

KOLAKOSKI (K.)
General Major Q9
Raelin ROTV
Ne-Gok-Sa
Marcus
Romans x3

SHERMAN DAVIS (SD)
General "Mittens" (Venoc Warlord)
Armoc Vipers x4
53rd North Carolina Sharpshooters x4
(Unreleased C3V card: 2 figures, 55 Points)


THE MAP
Our usual large 20+ x 30+ space four player size map included a central ridge and lots of terrain sight blockers. The central half was grass/swamp, one flank desert sand and the other rocky with some lava flow (no molton). My original idea of having players start in the far corners of each side was changed by the players to starting together in the center, so as to produce one big battle rather than two separate ones, which it did. If TW is able to post his game photos, you'll be able to see this extravaganza, which K. complimented me on, although for Game Two it proved to be a bit too wide for the army's to get to the enemy backfield much.


GAME ONE
The name of the scenario referred to the General Rule: if you lost your most powerful figure you're whole army would rout off the board immediately. So these army leaders were mostly held back in the reserve, to be committed carefully at the proper time. This game turned into a slug fest with the two Major Q9's blasting away at each other (mostly to no avail). Eventually the Black Alliance gained the upper hand and won, but with not too much left on the board. The games were allowed 20 turns, but we expected them to end sooner. In fact Game One only went 10 turns, as is more usual. Almost all of the fighting happened on the central ridge and section, although there was some skirmishing in the desert between the Confederates and the Hounds among the sand dunes (isolated two and three high sand pieces).

In the center ruins, pine trees, and jungle trees provided limited access through various choke points which the melee figures were able to block off, locking the front a bit. Both armies used regular Scape tactics in a Kill 'Em All game in which by the end almost everyone died.

The Black Alliance interspersed their two armies, and discussed most of their moves together. We Whites played more seperately, setting up next to each other in our starting rows back in the forest, but improvised supporting each other at certain key times during the battle. For example, Sonlen healed our General Q9 three times successfully.

The 600 Point AOTP Armies were keyed to the Planeswalker (PW) chosen before Game Day by the players:

CHAS
Nissa (Green PW)
Elf Rangers
Pummelroot Elementals
Kessing Rangers/Ravagers

TAEBLEWALKER
Jace (Blue PW)
Leyline Phantoms
Necro-Alchemist
Lantern Geists

KOLAKOSKI
Gideon (White PW)
Avacyn On Bloodied Wings
Rox Veterans
Kor Hookmasters

SHERMAN DAVIES
Chandra (Red PW)
Blazing Firecats
Flamewing Phoenixes
Goblin Javelineers

GAME TWO
I took my partner TW aside and suggested we abandon the usual Scape frontal fighting and go for a scenario rules victory. We could do this by "assassinating: the two leaders of one player (SD); sending deep raids into the enemy rear (assuming the leaders would hang back at first as in the previous game), thus leaving us at two players to one and almost certain victory. He agreed. I planned to go around our Right Flank where my army was set up into the rocky area, which had not been used in Game One. He had other ideas for his attack.

Getting back into our AOTP mode, which we all had not played for a while (since before Zendikar or Innistrad came out), everyone sent out their Planeswalkers for a couple of turns before summoning any creatures. We noted that besides my Elf theme, the Maarden Hounds on one side quite resembled the enemy Blazing Firecats. K.'s Rhox Veterans resembled his Romans. One of the most important points was that in this blended game, a player could cast spells without activating their PW with an Order Marker. With this and a few other points of the AOTP rules and the Blended rules, we again moved our armies up. Once again K. move his Romans diagonally forward to support his partner. This time, instead of trying to ambush them with Sharwin, who had not proved able to activate her Arcane Bolt due to the protection of Raelin and the Roman's ability to aid each other when adjacent, my plan was to fake around Right and not even contact them with my raiders.

SD moved Chandra, that short ranged flamer up, which was perfect. TW send his Phantom Walking Leyline Phantoms over to her in the enemy territory, assisted by a temporary flying ability from a Jace spell card. Although they were eventually eliminated in their commando raid, they did in fact defeat Chandra! TW was the more experienced AOTP player, having come over to play it with me one on one a couple of times, whereas the others had only played in our common initial AOTP game and one combo game, and that was months ago. So he had cleverly Unsummoned some of Chandra's creatures back to their Reserve. Now with Chandra gone, they'd never reappear in the game! "Oh well," said SD as he put his spells and creatures aside, "now I can just play good old Scape anyhow!"

On my flank, after tying down the advancing Ne-Got-Sa with my Pummelroots, I sent my Elf Rangers ranging around the flank, and atop the rock formations which resembled the sand dunes on the other flank, where once again some Confederates had been sniping at our Hounds. I banked to a degree on my opponents' unfamiliarity with my AOTP abilities. Throwing my powerful Primeval Light spell, I took out six enemy Enchantments, for the loss of only one of my own. Then I healed the wounded two Rangers remaining, and they shot down some sniping Confederates (which SD was using very well, having helped design them). (I note that the main thought for them being so different from the previously released Union C3V custom card was based on an idea of my own to make them specialized sharpshooters, where the USA card were normal infantry. After all, once in Valhalla, these previous units would have more in common with each other than Vikings or Robots, and probably want to team up).

Bringing Nissa over to back up my Elf Rangers, I extended their range an shot down the Confederates, as well as some Armoc Vipers in the enemy start zone. Unfortunately SD, who had moved General Mittens (our second team target) away from the powerful Jace on TW flank to mine, now moved him back to safety in his rear center. Unable to reach him, my rangers atop "Fort Nissa" now killed off some Armocs who charged out to attack me. Then I rained arrows down on Gideon, who had come close enough to hit. Hey, if not one leader, how about killing another? Gideon soon retreated.

On Turn Ten both TW and SD were eliminated from the game from losing leaders. It was getting on into evening, although we'd started around 1:30 in the afternoon. So the two defeated players gathered up their stuff and went home, leaving K. and me to fight it out.

The game now went five more turns (15 of 20). I sent my two heroic Elf Ranger unexpectedly out once again in a deep penetration raid to get Gideon, and they put
two wounds on him. This shocked K. a bit, but he soon recovered and brought Romans up to take the brave archers out. We had been battling in our own start zone when Mittens and Avacyn invaded us there previously, and I had a chance to finally summon my Kessing Rangers (Human), who first shot with crossbows, and then Transformed into their werewolf form (with seperate figures for this new shape), to surprise my foes. Now most of my forces were deep in my own rear, and the board was just too wide for me to get to the enemy rear in the five turns left.

So we totalled up the points, since the player with the most on the board would win. Although I thought I had more, it turned out that K. was 130 points ahead. So he could win just by going defensive. At this point I could only concede, and contratulate my opponent, who had spent an awful lot of order markes on his Kor Hookmasters in the center, taking out my last Pummelroot after other units had also engaged on the central ridge.

It had been an exciting and unusual Heroscape Game Day. I had proved that my Blending Rules worked Post-Innistrad. We also had many interesting combat match ups, only some of which I've been able to mention here. As noted at the end of the scenario, when a fourth AOTP set is released, there should be enough spell cards and units to bring some of the Bicolored PWs into a four player game. Thanks to the usual gang for another adventurous Heroscaping encounter on the battlefield!

[Johngee]

Originally Posted by chas

REPORT ON THE TWO GAMES OF "IS GENERAL TSO CHICKEN?"

Played on Wednesday Sept. 14, the experiment was a success. While I'd make a few changes to the scenario itself, my blended rules worked just fine. Here in Brooklyn we like Scape, and I wanted to make AOTP an expansion while keeping to the original game's rules as much as possible, still using order marker and etc. (Others down in the AOTP subforum are doing the opposite, so you can choose either type of system, to play or modify for your own games). I'll be making some small editing changes to my own rules down there in the Blender section on my thread.

I CONCUR.


Having never played "Magic: The Gathering" and having no interest in 'Deck Builder' games in general, my desire was to see the AotP figures blended into traditional HS games without separate spells cards or outrageous abilities. Since I have very limited Photo-Shop skills, I've been waiting for someone to publish reasonable hero stat cards for each AotP and their minions.


If anyone feels the same way, then they should check out the cards created by Brian McCullar in Texas and shared on the FaceBook-dot-COM page which is apply titled: "HeroScapeRs-dot-COM." The cards available are:
Chandra Nalaar - Aquilla - 150 pts.
Gideon Jura - Jandar - 160 pts.
Jace Beleren - Vydar - 150 pts.
Kiora Atua - Aquilla - 150 pts.
Liliana Vess - Utgar - 140 pts.
Nissa Revane - Ullar - 130 pts.
Ob Nixilis - Utgar - 160 pts.


You may or may not agree with the allegiances, point cost, or limited special abilities, BUT at least now we all have access to decent Stat Cards in the format that we are all familiar with that we can begin experimenting with as our own play-testing prior to "tweaking" them if necessary. Those debates are still ongoing until the C3V team can pick up this ball and run with it, and eventually put a stamp of approval on particular designs. However, I believe their hands are currently tied because they already have too much on their plate while attempting to release the Next Wave in a timely manner.

[kolakoski]

Well met!

Thanks and kudos to chas for hosting, and building a pleasingly aesthetic Map, and for his simple yet effective blending of the two games (AotP and 'Scape)!

My army:

General Major Q9
Raelin ROTV
Ne-Gok-Sa
Marcus
Romans x3

Gideon (White PW)
Avacyn On Bloodied Wings
Rox Veterans
Kor Hookmasters

chas covered things pretty well. I had only played AotP once, with the Gang, a long while back, when the game was first released. A few observations concerning Arenascape:

1. I realized, after the first Round began, with my first two OMs on Romans, that being required to draw a Spell Card each turn would force me to exceed the seven Card limit, and waste Cards (having no Squads or Hero yet Summoned to play them on). We discussed this, and all agreed that the rule would be changed for Arenascape to allow a Player to choose whether or not to draw a Spell Card each turn.

2. chas' Spell Bomb was a shocker! However, it would not have been so bad had I realized that it was not necessary, and, in fact, detrimental, to place more than one hidden enchantment on a unit, and that placement of Hidden Spell Cards could be delayed until a threat appeared, and others until right before they were needed. I would have saved as many as four (out of six) Cards from the Spell Bomb if I had so acted.

3. Avacyn On Bloodied Wings was my Hero, from the expansion, Shadows over Innistrad, and he was devastating with his The Madness of Angels enabling her to auto-Wound all adjacent units at the end of her turn. I destroyed Taeblewalker's Planeswalker with her.

More anon.

[kolakoski]

Well met!

Originally Posted by kolakoski

Thanks and kudos to chas for hosting, and building a pleasingly aesthetic Map, and for his simple yet effective blending of the two games (AotP and 'Scape)!

My army:

General Major Q9
Raelin ROTV
Ne-Gok-Sa
Marcus
Romans x3

Gideon (White PW)
Avacyn On Bloodied Wings
Rox Veterans
Kor Hookmasters

chas covered things pretty well. I had only played AotP once, with the Gang, a long while back, when the game was first released. A few observations concerning Arenascape:

1. I realized, after the first Round began, with my first two OMs on Romans, that being required to draw a Spell Card each turn would force me to exceed the seven Card limit, and waste Cards (having no Squads or Hero yet Summoned to play them on). We discussed this, and all agreed that the rule would be changed for Arenascape to allow a Player to choose whether or not to draw a Spell Card each turn.

2. chas' Spell Bomb was a shocker! However, it would not have been so bad had I realized that it was not necessary, and, in fact, detrimental, to place more than one hidden enchantment on a unit, and that placement of Hidden Spell Cards could be delayed until a threat appeared, and others until right before they were needed. I would have saved as many as four (out of six) Cards from the Spell Bomb if I had so acted.

3. Avacyn On Bloodied Wings was my Hero, from the expansion, Shadows over Innistrad, and he was devastating with his The Madness of Angels enabling her to auto-Wound all adjacent units at the end of her turn. I destroyed Taeblewalker's Planeswalker with her.

More anon.

Anon:

4. About blending, various ideas have been put forward, but none easier than chas', and, I suspect, none as good will be forthcoming. The Planeswalkers having been Summoned to Valhalla from a Dimension not quite identical to ours, are sleightly out of phase. As a result, they do not have comparable point costs and/or powers with "normal" 'Scape. The amount of tweaking involved to alter 'Scape units to fit AotP, or vice versa would be huuuuuge. Good luck with that (and, if anyone makes me eat my words, that's good, too). In the meantime, chas' system - 'Scape powers affect AotP units, but not vice versa - works.

[chas]

Other Friends,

AOTP can affect Scape units with their normal distance and ranged attacks. Its the spell cards and special abilities which reference "Target Creatures" as opposed to "Target Figures" which can't. This is because AOTP figures are considered stronger in general. For example, the newer game squads have multiple lives, which Scape squaddies don't.

JohnGee,

I don't do Facebook. Do the Scape carded PWs still summon other units? Any chance you can post them either here on on the AOTP subthread?

***

Taeblewalker explained that he has to go through quite a procedure to send his game photos here, but hopefully he'll post them eventually, as he usually does.

[caps]

Avacyn is a she.

[Taeblewalker]

I think we were playing that white angel wrong. I believe her card says she does an automatic wound to creatures. Planeswalkers aren't creatures.

[kolakoski]

Well met!

Originally Posted by Taeblewalker

I think we were playing that white angel wrong. I believe her card says she does an automatic wound to creatures. Planeswalkers aren't creatures.

Undoubtedly.

By the way, howw are we doing for a map/scenario for your Sinister Six?

[Taeblewalker]

Originally Posted by kolakoski

Well met!

Undoubtedly.

By the way, how are we doing for a map/scenario for your Sinister Six?

The scenario is kill'em all. The map is Alkali Lake.