Disney buys Lucasfilms; plans new movies

[Schulzy]

Originally Posted by Lord Pyre

And I hope you realize that every big budget movie is a cash grab. Every single one.

Well, yeah. The job of a film is to make money. But Christopher Nolan treated the Batman franchise with a healthy amount of respect. The Marvel movies take creative liberties, but they don't seem to be making the fanboys froth at the mouth.

Surely it isn't too much to ask that other filmmakers attempt something great, rather than attempt something okay and be satisfied with it because it will sell anyway. Of course, it's so much easier to make and sell something that is just okay.

That is why I respect Nolan as a filmmaker. He doesn't cut corners, and Inception is probably the most original movie we'll see for another decade.

[Jim]

Originally Posted by Schulzy

But the movie was never advertised as actually having aliens. The aliens came in at the very end of the film. They weren't a selling point. Watch this trailer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BgyhHBoz50

They're selling nostalgia here, with blatent appeals to fans of the first movies, the scene in the Ark warehouse, ancient ruins, yadda yadda yadda. There isn't even a shot of the alien looking skull.

But in that trailer, there is the shot of the crate that clearly has "ROSWELL NEW MEXICO" on it in large friendly letters... If that doesn't scream "ALIENS!" I don't know what would.

[Schulzy]

Originally Posted by Jim

But in that trailer, there is the shot of the crate that clearly has "ROSWELL NEW MEXICO" on it in large friendly letters... If that doesn't scream "ALIENS!" I don't know what would.

They don't linger on that shot long enough for most people to clearly catch that. The focus of the shot is on the glasses, and why they chose that shot for the trailer is a bit beyond me. The crate doesn't look magnetic there or anything, it just looks like the glasses are falling. Anyhow, I believe that my point stands they they weren't trying to advertise aliens.

No amount of debate at this point is going to make y'all see where I'm coming from. That's fine. I don't have any overwhelming need to justify myself to anyone. So whatevs.

[Lord Pyre]

They WEREN'T trying to promote aliens. It was supposed to be a plot twist that people didn't see coming.

[Schulzy]

But aliens don't have any place in Indiana Jones! That's where this all starts! It goes against everything the other movies tried to establish! They didn't advertise it because they knew it was a colossal mistake, and they needed everyone's ticket money before they completely botched everything. If I had known the movie was going to have aliens in the first 30 minutes of the film, I would have walked out and gotten a refund.

[Lord Pyre]

Just... nevermind... You aren't listening to anything.

[Jim]

Originally Posted by Lord Pyre

Just... nevermind... You aren't listening to anything.

He (Schulzy) can accept a guy pulling someone's heart out of their body and it not killing them, but not aliens...

Meanwhile, back at Disney...

[Yodaking]

Originally Posted by Schulzy

I could go on about how the series had a successful formula, and how the practical effects of the first movies blow Crystal Skull's CGI crap out of the water, but I won't. I have school work to attend to. So in lieu of a full blown, off topic essay, I'll hit my favorite anti Crystal Skull argument.

The first Indiana Jones movies are about faith. For whatever religion Indy is hunting down an artifact for, that faith is re-affirmed by both the existence of the artifact and the power it holds.

Bolded #1: After sharing this Star Wars news with my daughter (who is 17) we were talking about the Star Wars franchise and she made a comment about liking the special effects of the original trilogy better then the prequels and I whole hardheartedly agreed. Jabba the Hutt in Return was an actual physical creature effect with 3 people inside of him operating it and he was awesome as a result. Jabba the Hutt in EP1 was a CGI blob with no texture or presence onscreen what so ever. This is just the reality of the times we now live in. Movie makers have become lazy and dependent on CGI effects, where earlier films actually had to sell you a real visual image. I don't fault the use of CGI where necessary, but they have become too dependent on them. It is a wider industry failing that effects not just the Indy & Star Wars films. The stark contrast of where we are vs. where we were just stands out more on these franchises that have spanned decades and thus offer a direct comparison.

Bolded #2:



You may not believe in the possibility of alien life, but their are millions of people across the globe that very much do. They choose to believe that we are not alone in the universe, even though they have no physical evidence to confirm that belief. Some choose to believe in silence while other express their belief openly in the face of criticism and ridicule by non believers. What is that if not faith? And I'm not talking about Scientology here, those people are crack pots using a pseudo-science religious belief structure for financial gain and to amass personal power.

Also just to clarify in case you missed it while storming out of the theater. The crystal skull did not belong to an alien from another planet in our universe, it ended up belonging to a creature that traveled here from an alternate dimension. While still and 'alien' in terms of being a foreigner to our world, it is different from the UFO visiting aliens that have become so prevalent in pop culture. The reason I bring this up is because the distinction is important here. The idea of alternate dimensions and the ability to travel between them is a much more radical scientific concept. This plot twist in Indy 4 cements in stone the idea that the 4th movies religious undertone was that of science.

Raiders - Judaism
Doom - Hinduism
Grail - Christianity
Skull - Science

If you have read the Dan Brown novels, you will better understand what I am talking about here. In those books, the idea that science itself has become the new religion is discussed. It is not a new idea first appearing in his books either, the books are just an easy thing to reference. Once ancient man turned to religion to explain the world around them, why the sun rose, what an eclipse is, why the grass is green, how rain falls, etc. Now mankind turns to science to explain why the things we see around us occur in the fashion that they do. Gods will and magic powers have been replaced by chemistry and physics. The big philosophical questions broached by religion in the past (Why am I here? What is my role in the world? etc.) has been replaced by psychology, with psychologist handing out drugs developed through science, based on the chemical reactions that take place within our brains. It does not follow the same model as previous religions in terms of places of worship and religious leaders, but for some it has replaced the role of religion in society. Answering the questions of why, and investing in the belief that through a dedication to it's craft (science) that all questions will eventual find an answer.

Look again at the villain in Indy 4 and you will see that she is very much a believer in the religion of science. She is a soviet agent, the Soviet Union being a place with no state religion that suppressed all traditional religious practices. She was hard core into science based mystical powers, ESP and the like. She was the one seeking out the crystal skull, believing that it held powers she could harness for herself.

Now I understand why someone who is a firm believer in a traditional religion will want to reject this premise, but that rejection does not preclude the fact that Indy 4 did still follow the same model laid out for the first 3 Indy movies. It just chose to explore an area you are not comfortable with since it does not conform to the traditional religions the previous movies used as a basis for their plots.

[Yodaking]

Originally Posted by Schulzy

EDITPALOOZA: In response to the "Crystal Skulls are real" thing: This is the first line of the Wiki article on the subject:

"The crystal skulls are a number of human skull hardstone carvings made of clear or milky quartz, known in art history as "rock crystal", claimed to be pre-Columbian Mesoamerican artifacts by their alleged finders..."

The key there is the word 'human.' The skull in the movie is clearly not human, nor is it even pretending to be.

Correct, which is a big part of the premise of the movie. When ancient peoples (who by today's standards we think of as primitive) came in contact with the alien crystal skull, they were amazed and inspired by it. So they then attempted to recreate what they had seen by creating crystal skulls of their own, however they made their crystal skulls resemble their own human shaped skull instead of the alien one they had seen. This idea of man projecting his own image onto 'god' is not a new one. The makers of these human crystal skulls then used them in religious belief structures of their own making to amaze and inspire their followers. He who controlled the skull controlled 'gods' divine power.

Thus these different crystal skulls we have floating around in private collection and museums today are alleged to have been made by different ancient peoples who had come in contact with the one true crystal skull. A crystal skull that has been hidden away and contains true mystical properties. Thus Indies quest in the movie was to find the one true crystal skull that inspired all these copycats. The copycats being proof of the existence of the one true crystal skull. Once Indy finds it, the plot twist kicks in where you discover that the first crystal skull was not a human shaped one.

[Agent Minivann]

Originally Posted by Lord Pyre

And I hope you realize that every big budget movie is a cash grab. Every single one.

I think you are operating with a very different definition of the term "cash grab". Every big budget movie (well every movie with a few exceptions) is made with the goal of making a profit, but that does not make it a cash grab.

[screwDriver]

Me grabs popcorn. This feels like a Star Trek vs Star Wars fanboys discussion.

[ibechief]

Originally Posted by screwDriver

Me grabs popcorn. This feels like a Star Trek vs Star Wars fanboys discussion.

seems like an opportune time to use this then?