Summoner Wars by Plaid Hat Games

[Aldin]

Originally Posted by quozl

You should try Batlle For Hill 218 and Space Station Assault. Very cool, quick, and simple tactical card games.

~Quozl, just liking the similarites between Heroscape and Summoner Wars and thinking it's ludicrous to downplay them

I've heard good things about Battle for Hill 218. Space Station Assault I'm not familiar with and will need to look into. Lately I've been playing a dice-less (combat and events are all card deck driven) solitare game by the same guy who did the Ambush series of games I loved as a teenager - D-Day at Omaha Beach. Brutally difficult game, but easy to recommend for WWII junkies.

~Aldin, who thinks both SW and HS are fun, simple to learn, difficult to master and quick to play games with at least some fantasy themes

[truth]

Originally Posted by quozl

I'm not getting hostile, just stating my opinion the same as you. I see you disagree and I think that's fine. I also hope that it's fine that I think it is 'basically the card version of Heroscape'. That's what I like about it. That's why I want to buy it.

I edited one of my previous posts right after I posted it. So maybe you missed this part of it:

In the end, I guess it is really just your opinion, and that is what opinions are for, we are all allowed to have them and they are all allowed to be different. If you want to call it the card version of Heroscape and that's what you like about it, go for it. I just had something to say about that, and since this is an open forum and all, I figured I would.

What I'm trying to say is I read 'it is basically the card version of Heroscape' as 'you are a derivative hack'. That is probably just my own insecurities showing through though.

Can I just say this: I tried to take my influences from games that I've liked, and from design work that I've done, and use that gained experience to create something unique and fun. I feel like there are some school of thoughts in game design that I've picked up and incorporated, but I hope I was able to do that without being derivative.

For you, it sounds like it fell short of unique, but I'll still take fun as a compliment, and I'm supremely grateful that you've supported my game.

[quozl]

Originally Posted by truth

What I'm trying to say is I read 'it is basically the card version of Heroscape' as 'you are a derivative hack'. That is probably just my own insecurities showing through though.

Can I just say this: I tried to take my influences from games that I've liked, and from design work that I've done, and use that gained experience to create something unique and fun. I feel like there are some school of thoughts in game design that I've picked up and incorporated, but I hope I was able to do that without being derivative.

For you, it sounds like it fell short of unique, but I'll still take fun as a compliment, and I'm supremely grateful that you've supported my game.

I tired to make sure I wasn't saying bad things when I made the comparison. I've only played it once. It was very fun and the fun I had was very similar to fun I have in Heroscape. I've been planning on picking up all the sets because I'd like a portable version of Heroscape and Summoner Wars seems to scratch the same itch. I like that! I don't think Summoner Wars is derivative or ripped off and I definitely don't think you're a hack. I am just glad to see a portable game that gives me a very similar fun feeling as I get from Heroscape.

I want to commend you, not disparage you! Thank you for making and selling this game!

[Grungebob]

Originally Posted by quozl

I tired to make sure I wasn't saying bad things when I made the comparison. I've only played it once. It was very fun and the fun I had was very similar to fun I have in Heroscape. I've been planning on picking up all the sets because I'd like a portable version of Heroscape and Summoner Wars seems to scratch the same itch. I like that! I don't think Summoner Wars is derivative or ripped off and I definitely don't think you're a hack. I, for one am just glad to see a portable game that gives me a very similar fun feeling as I get from Heroscape.

I want to commend you, not disparage you! Thank you for making and selling this game!

I didn't think that the remarks were negative, but I did think saying that it is basically Heroscape the Card Game, is way off(doesn't give Colby enough credit). BUT!! I can see that there is a certain charm that both games have and considering the influence Colby has had on Heroscape, and considering the influence that Craig has had on us, I can see that simple ability wording and minimalist approach to complexity evident in both games. It is a good thing.

[Greyelephant]

Originally Posted by truth

Yeah, you still make me sound derivative. Which is fine if that is what you think, I'm just saying that the only place I get this is here, or from people who are from here but have migrated over to SummonerWars.com. And I love those people, they are MY people, I was counting on grabbing some following from my work on Heroscape, and I tried to create something that was as approachable as Heroscape is, as I love that theory of design. I'm just saying that I don't often get the comparison to Heroscape from those who have been exposed to a larger variety of games. I will still get comparisons, but they vary widely, and are often comparisons to games I've never played, and so am incapable of being directly influenced by.

I just really wanted to address it, take away what you will. If I can't speak openly here, then where the heck can I?

Oh, stop it Colby you're making us blush.


They're both fantasy games bottom line.

Personally, I've gotten more into Summoner Wars than Heroscape for several reasons. Some might sound silly, but others relatable.

I've young kids. It's hard to set up a Heroscape board without having them destroying half of it by the time you're ready to play.

Heroscape has soooooo many pieces. Cards, figures, wound markers, order markers, tiles, ect.....

Both games I've connected to the figures in one way or another. For some reason though, Summoner Wars is a bit more personal. I guess because there's one main guy. That guy is me for the duration of the game. If I lose him, I've lost. In Heroscape you've so many squads and heroes that if you lose 1 certain figure it don't matter. Not so in Summoner Wars.

Summoner wars is small/compact and easy to take anywhere you go.

I like the fact that my faction cards are already picked. No long deciding on building some ultimate team. It's simple, do I want to be Dwarves? Nah! Do I want to be Elves? Nah! Goblins? Nah! TUNDRA ORCS? Now your talking!

I've won in 3 turns with Summoner Wars. I've won in what seemed like a bizillion turns. Either way, they were not as time consuming as Heroscape.

There's that classic moment where you and your opponent have both drained your draw pile and realized......oh, crap! That's all there is and there ain't no more! It's a very fun realization for both sides.


So there. Not saying one is better than the other, but I find the older I get I don't like spending tons of time prepping a game before I can play. That's the reason I can't play RPG games anymore. They take too long. I need something with a bit more action and Summoner Wars gives that to you in a hurry.

[Shades fan]

Originally Posted by Grungebob

I didn't think that the remarks were negative, but I did think saying that it is basically Heroscape the Card Game, is way off(doesn't give Colby enough credit). BUT!! I can see that there is a certain charm that both games have and considering the influence Colby has had on Heroscape, and considering the influence that Craig has had on us, I can see that simple ability wording and minimalist approach to complexity evident in both games. It is a good thing.

It's more than just a good thing... it makes the playability for all ages huge, and doesn't make you read a 270-some pages just to play!(cough Warhammer cough)

My FLGS clerk explained the game to me in about 5 minutes, and after I felt like I could have played it.

I do however think calling it a "Card version of Heroscape" has a bit of a * "unsults" quality to it and could have a double meaning. I took it in a similar way Truth did, but I thinks it's obvious that you didn't mean it that way.




* unsult- a insult disguised as a compliment defined by the Simpsons.

[truth]

Originally Posted by quozl

I want to commend you, not disparage you! Thank you for making and selling this game!

Thanks quozl, I just took you wrong. And thanks everyone else who had nice things to say. Thanks for supporting the game guys. It has been a fun adventure. I can't wait to get the new stuff out!

[Jexik]

I think the bottom line is that people find parts of one of their favorite games in Summoner Wars, whatever that previous favorite game was.

For those who like it, it taps into that feeling of a good game.

For those who live and breathe Heroscape, it reminds them of that. Like Greyelephant, I really love the short set up time and high portability factor.

Killercactus- you know I'm not mad, man. I was just ribbing you because you always pull some weird comparison (Cyberclaw I got, but engagement strike? Hah!)

I remember when spider was teaching me Epic Duels and explaining me some of the cards. He showed me Vader and explained the "All too easy" card which totally kills someone if they have no cards in their hand. He was halfway through saying that the Emperor had a force lightning attack before I blurted out "and it makes them discard cards?" He asked me if I played it before, but I hadn't. However, the CVN school of design usually makes intuitive sense, and I think Colby has learned that well.

I got really into Race for the Galaxy last summer. When truth first showed me Summoner Wars, the Magic pile made me think of that.

[killercactus]

Originally Posted by Jexik

Killercactus- you know I'm not mad, man. I was just ribbing you because you always pull some weird comparison (Cyberclaw I got, but engagement strike? Hah!)

Of course I know you aren't mad, because I wouldn't be mad if you did it.

I just can't wait until truth releases a character that, before it attacks, gets to roll two dice for every unit within 2 spaces and, if the roll totals 11 (or some other combination that has about a 1/20 chance of occuring), that unit dies.

[PHippo]

Originally Posted by truth

I spent the first 2 years of my game design career working to write powers for systems created by him (some of which you don't know about yet.)

Tease

But if I may put in my 2 cents:
Although I have not had a chance to play summoner wars yet (my wallet just isn't letting me), I have read through the rulebook (twice) and all of the cards and I must say if I was going to copmpare it to another game heroscape would not have been my first choice at all. Yes they both have that simple yet incredibly fun aspect to them but the mechanics are just too different.

When it comes to design, all designers throughout history in all sorts of fields: writing, art, music, fashion, technology, and yes gaming, have taken a hodge podge of the various aspects of exsisting things they like in their field, thrown them together, and added their own unique twist. It's how design works.

Summoner Wars strikes me as a very unique and fun game and I cannot wait for the Fallen Kingdom faction to be released! (probably going to purchase that along with Phoenix Elves/ Tundra Orcs)

Just a quick question about the packaging truth: Will the two new factions be released together like the last two (with two opposing factions in one box) or seperately (with one faction in a slightly smaller box)?

Also, how often do you plan on releasing expansions and new factions?


BTW: can't help but feel as if a big group hug after a fight has just occured on this thread :laughing:

[A_Train]

I believe truth has indicated that the two expansions will be sold separately as individual decks.

Another question truth, if you can answer; after the Fallen Kingdom and Vanguard are released, what can we expect for the following expansion? Will it be more factions, or more units for the current factions?

[PHippo]

Or even a mercenary expansion?