The Book of Katana

[Ronin]

Originally Posted by Arkham

I feel the argument is valid. A design that has powers that conflict with themselves isn't the best approach here. She doesn't have the survivability to last, so her offense needs to be streamlined to work in an all-in-one mentality. Each power is supporting the other so to speak. I shouldn't have to think "do I attack twice(with a potential boost), or do I attack once with a static attack which has -2 to their defense" when only one allows her to really get the benefits of placing a figure on her card, which should be the main goal/focus for her.

That said, I have no issue with Soultaker being a SA if Bladerunner allows it.

I just don't think every design needs to hit all its strongest points all at once. Nothing wrong with a little tension and forcing the player to make some choices. I see where you're coming from if you really want the Soultaker to be her centerpiece, though.

I also don't understand the "taken in at a glance" reasoning here. There's powers/cards WAY more complicated than anything on this card. I can't imagine her powers being any harder to digest than Kang II's, using your previous design for comparison sake in terms of complexity and ease of remembrance, which I had no issue remembering after reading once or twice. The 2nd half of Soultaker is the only real complex aspect here.

I was specifically addressing Shang-Chi there, since he was your counter-example. Having overlapping triggers for multiple powers (ie two powers that do different things when moving) is easier to take in when the overlap is with common powers like Phantom Walk. Not saying that every design needs to be as simple as Shang-Chi, just that Shang-Chi is really easy to take in.

That version of Katana that I was responding to isn't so complicated it's torturous, but it does have a lot of different effects that don't feel intuitively organized to me. My assumption is that everyone else forgets things as easily as I do, in which case they'd probably have trouble.

But I'd like to see where everyone else stands on these things before putting any more thought into it. Some have expressed desire to see it as SA, and some prefer normal. Some have said it's too complicated, some have said it's fine. So I'd like to see where the general consensus is here.

Agreed! I've mostly said my bit here; I like the design and just wanted to caution against the increasing power and complexity levels.

[IAmBatman]

Oh, and I'd also be cool with any of the simple versions of the tactical powers we discussed (I think she's a tactical enough fighter to justify it) or with a melee or engagement strike there.

[Arkham]

There's definitely some options on the table. I'd be fine with just about any of them(Stealth Dodge, Counterstrike, Tactical power).

As I said, I'd be fine with Soultaker as a SA if it's wrapped into Bladerunner to include SA. Though, I still think it's odd that her main attack won't be able to be enhanced by the likes of Cap, Star-Lord, Oracle, Bane like boosts etc. Just feels odd.

And yes, her Soultaker is absolutely her center piece. IMO, everything should be aiding in its effectiveness, and nothing should compete/conflict with it.

[IAmBatman]

Oh and I can see the merits of Soultaker as normal or special. I'm fine with whatever fits in best with the overall design.

[japes]

Stealth Dodge/Manuevers and 6 defense I'd say is a bit much but the other options with the high defense or Stealth Dodge with lower defense fits.

[johnny139]

I think my preference would be Bladerunning, Soultaker Special Attack, and Counter Strike. That feels appropriately Katana-esque to me.

[Arkham]

Here's where I'm leaning:

LIFE = 4

MOVE = 6
RANGE = 5
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 6

POINTS = ~180

BLADERUNNER
Katana may move through all figures, never takes leaving engagement attacks, and may attack up to 2 times at any point before, during, or after her normal move as long as she is on a space where she could end her movement.

SOULTAKER SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1, Attack 4.
Figures attacked by this special attack roll 2 fewer defense dice. When Katana destroys a unique hero using this special attack, you may place it on this card if it is not an Android, Construct, Undead or destructible object. When an opponent rolls the 20-sided die for initiative or for a figure attacked by this special attack, you may subtract 2 from the roll for each figure on this card, to a maximum of -6.

COUNTER STRIKE
When rolling defense dice against a normal attack from an adjacent attacking figure, all excess shields count as unblockable hits on the attacking figure.

or as a non-SA:

LIFE = 4

MOVE = 6
RANGE = 5
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 6

POINTS = ~180

BLADERUNNER
Katana may move through all figures, never takes leaving engagement attacks, and may attack up to 2 times at any point before, during, or after her normal move as long as she is on a space where she could end her movement.

SOULTAKER
Figures attacked by Katana's normal attack roll 2 fewer defense dice. If Katana destroys an adjacent Unique Hero with her normal attack, you may place it on this card if it is not an Android, Construct, Undead or destructible object. When an opponent rolls the 20-sided die for initiative or for a figure attacked by Katana's normal attack, you may subtract 1 from the roll for each figure on this card, to a maximum of -6.

COUNTER STRIKE
When rolling defense dice against a normal attack from an adjacent attacking figure, all excess shields count as unblockable hits on the attacking figure.

Some things to consider with a normal attack vs. special attack:

Normal Attack
Pro:
Can be boosted by other figures like Cap and Star-Lord, or things like the Power Gem and height.
Con:
Can be lowered by other figures like Darkseid and Dazzler etc.

Special Attack:
Pro:
Can bypass special defenses such as Man of Steel and MMA.
Con:
Can't be boosted, and unaffected by height.

So it's really down to what you think is more valuable between those.

[japes]

I like this with the SA.

One question...is Bladerunner as a title relevant to her...seems like a pretty reusable power for any stealthy sword wielding turtle...I mean hero?

[Arkham]

Originally Posted by japes

I like this with the SA.

One question...is Bladerunner as a title relevant to her...seems like a pretty reusable power for any stealthy sword wielding turtle...I mean hero?

Bladerunner is a nickname/alias of hers. I also like the name, and it seems fitting of a power that involves moving quickly and attacking.

[IAmBatman]

I like the special attack version too. Bladerunner in that version should look to Tactical Double Attack wording to make it clear that the special attack can be used as part of the double attack.

[Arkham]

It shouted out "normal attack" beforehand, so I figured eliminating that and just having "attack" was the same as adding in "special attack", but with less text. But if that's not the case we can go with it that way:

LIFE = 4

MOVE = 6
RANGE = 5
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 6

POINTS = 180

BLADERUNNER
Katana may move through all figures, never takes leaving engagement attacks, and may attack with a normal or special attack up to 2 times at any point before, during, or after her normal move as long as she is on a space where she could end her movement.

SOULTAKER SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1, Attack 4.
Figures attacked by this special attack roll 2 fewer defense dice. When Katana destroys a unique hero using this special attack, you may place it on this card if it is not an Android, Construct, Undead or destructible object. When an opponent rolls the 20-sided die for initiative or for a figure attacked by this special attack, you may subtract 2 from the roll for each figure on this card, to a maximum of -6.

COUNTER STRIKE
When rolling defense dice against a normal attack from an adjacent attacking figure, all excess shields count as unblockable hits on the attacking figure.

Looks good to me. I'm thinking 170-190 as-is. I'll let the others chime in, in case there's any superior ideas or objections.

[Yodaking]

Originally Posted by Arkham

It shouted out "normal attack" beforehand, so I figured eliminating that and just having "attack" was the same as adding in "special attack", but with less text. But if that's not the case we can go with it that way:

Looks good to me. I'm thinking 170-190 as-is. I'll let the others chime in, in case there's any superior ideas or objections.

This seems pretty good to me. I like the offensive flexibility of the design, two normal attacks of 4 at range 5 from multiple locations or one melee SA of 4 that reduces def. by 2 and can counter d20 dodge/block/etc. powers. She also helps you win initiative as she piles up the body count. I'm not completely sold on the idea of 6 def. as Silver Samurai has a 5 counter strike def. and he does okay. You could bump her up to 5 life to match his 5 life.