Heroscape: Age of Annihilation is here! Back it on Haslab!

[orgsbane]

Originally Posted by SuperSamyon

The various cost analyst comparisons that have been shared since the campaign started seem to all make the erroneous assumption that the value of the set should only be measured against the contents of the set rather than the desirability of the set.

I don’t think this is the case, from what I’ve seen, everybody is on board with the idea that smaller offerings would have been a better option for more people, that’s just a different conversation from the value of the box as a whole. Personally, I also really wish they had faction or terrain options.

EDIT: for the record, I’ve been seen this take on Reddit or Twitter, where I’ve been lightly “engaging” and breaking down the value. I haven’t seen anyone around here saying that the box value is bad.

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, I think both sides of this are really effectively arguing different points that don't at all contradict each other.

It's a good value at $250 if you want what's in the set. Not everyone does. It's a steep buy-in. Consumers would've preferred more options.

All true. All can probably be put to rest.

[orgsbane]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

Yeah, I think both sides of this are really effectively arguing different points that don't at all contradict each other.

It's a good value at $250 if you want what's in the set. Not everyone does. It's a steep buy-in. Consumers would've preferred more options.

All true. All can probably be put to rest.

My thoughts exactly!

[nyys]

Originally Posted by SuperSamyon

1. People won't play with the new figures until they are painted.

I understand and agree, mostly, with your overall point, but why must this be an assumption? I would think the opposite. Try it unpainted and if you don't like, move it to the back of the line, out of the house, in a dark corner...

The aesthetic is definitely not going to be good if mixing painted with unpainted on the battlefield. For me, chances are we'll likely exclusively play the new figures against each other only (still won't be a good aesthetic, but will be consistent at least), until they get painted, if ever.

[TerminX]

my group will definitely play some games before I get started painting & I figure I'll just prioritize the ones people like using the most. may look odd for some games but it is what it is

very intimidated by the blimp in particular though if I'm being honest

[orgsbane]

Originally Posted by nyys

I understand and agree, mostly, with your overall point, but why must this be an assumption? I would think the opposite. Try it unpainted and if you don't like, move it to the back of the line, out of the house, in a dark corner...

Guilty as charged lol. That’s just the old WH40k peer pressure PTSD seeping through though, I hope people will happily use them unpainted. It’s the gameplay itself that’s meaningful, not the color of the minis (even if it does make them look nicer).

[Dartheyegouger]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

We can't even get registration and password change emails to go through reliably, so I'm gonna say "no." lol

Even so, it still might be worth a try, right?

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by orgsbane

It’s the gameplay itself that’s meaningful, not the color of the minis (even if it does make them look nicer).

I agree. I'm hoping the campaigners start giving us some gameplay information so the conversation can shift in that direction! Right now folks don't really have much else to respond to.

Originally Posted by Dartheyegouger

Even so, it still might be worth a try, right?

I won't stop you!

[caps]

Originally Posted by skyknight

One thing I keep seeing in the FB thread is that folks plan on 3D printing sets of the new stuff. I will be shocked if we don’t see Hasbro serve up cease and desists to every 3D printing site when this gets funded. I think they overlooked the old stuff because it was a dead game, but I can’t imagine they would look the other way with live IP’s. I do wonder if that will trigger them to just go after all 3D printed stuff and shut down the eBay market as well. I honestly don’t know the answer to the question, but I have seen Hasbro legal go all in for much less.

I really hope people don't actually do this... A bad idea on so many levels.

Originally Posted by Tornado

If these claims are being made on other websites, why dispute them here?

They've been made here as well, but more importantly this post is now a central place people can refer to when it comes up. I don't mind it being copy pasted.

Originally Posted by SuperSamyon

The various cost analyst comparisons that have been shared since the campaign started seem to all make the erroneous assumption that the value of the set should only be measured against the contents of the set rather than the desirability of the set. As it's been stated before, if you are interested in everything in the set, $250 is a great value.

However, if you are not interested in all the figures in the box, the value drops significantly. You have to assume these two likely facts:

1. People won't play with the new figures until they are painted.
2. People won't paint figures that they don't like.

With that in mind, if someone looks at the contents of the box and realizes that they don't like the direction the majority of the figures are going (which is a complaint echoed repeatedly since the campaign has launched), then they realize that their $250 is going towards a few pieces of terrain and scenary along with a very large pile of miniatures that will have to be off loaded somehow. Given that they are uniques, they may also realize that unique figures don't often retain much value in the second hand market.

Hence why an a la cart approach is needed for a campaign like this. When presenting cost analysis, it's probably more realistic to assume that out of the 71 figures available, for some backers only a fraction or so figures will actually be painted and played with and the rest will be discarded.

It's truly one of the main drawbacks of unpainted miniatures in that people are less likely to give undesirable figures a shot if they first have to paint them. The original master sets had the advantage of presenting undesirable figures already painted and ready to go giving the players a chance to try them out.

For new painters, you'll soon learn quickly what the phrase "pile of shame" means. For those of us trying not to contribute to our piles of shame, 71 figures is more of a burden than a value.

I disagree with your first assumption strongly, and even with your second assumption, though only weakly. More importantly, none of this is a counterpoint. The set is worth more than it costs as an objective fact. There are plenty of heroes in the original Heroscape boosters I comped with that I'm not personally interested in. That doesn't change what those sets retailed for.

The idea that $250 is more than an individual might want to spend is a non sequitur since that's a subjective thing. I said that in the beginning of the post.

[orgsbane]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

I agree. I'm hoping the campaigners start giving us some gameplay information so the conversation can shift in that direction! Right now folks don't really have much else to respond to.

Absolutely! According to AH discord, they are working on a gameplay video. I’m really hoping to get a peek at some army cards, particularly the bugs.

[bradtato]

Originally Posted by orgsbane

I don’t think this is the case, from what I’ve seen, everybody is on board with the idea that smaller offerings would have been a better option for more people, that’s just a different conversation from the value of the box as a whole. Personally, I also really wish they had faction or terrain options.

EDIT: for the record, I’ve been seen this take on Reddit or Twitter, where I’ve been lightly “engaging” and breaking down the value. I haven’t seen anyone around here saying that the box value is bad.

Logistically speaking, if they had done smaller offerings, how much of a pain would that have made the actual production process? Filling 8000 identical orders for a fixed price surely has to be more cost effective than filling 8000 orders of a dozen different configurations at a dozen different price point, right? As much as smaller offerings would’ve been beneficial on the consumer end, that’s not what the campaign is about. It’s about probing overall interest in an ongoing relaunch, where we’re inevitably going to get the smaller offerings so many people are itching for right now, but if it doesn’t fund, there will be no offerings, large or small. I have plenty of units that already don’t get used, and don’t mind adding a few more if it means I’ll also get to add to my collection of “draft every time” units.

[SuperSamyon]

Originally Posted by caps

I really hope people don't actually do this... A bad idea on so many levels.

They've been made here as well, but more importantly this post is now a central place people can refer to when it comes up. I don't mind it being copy pasted.

I disagree with your first assumption strongly, and even with your second assumption, though only weakly. More importantly, none of this is a counterpoint. The set is worth more than it costs as an objective fact. There are plenty of heroes in the original Heroscape boosters I comped with that I'm not personally interested in. That doesn't change what those sets retailed for.

The idea that $250 is more than an individual might want to spend is a non sequitur since that's a subjective thing. I said that in the beginning of the post.

Please don't take my response as combatitive. I have to head back to work so I didn't have time to refine it.

Given that the largest miniature wargame in the market today, 40k, penalizes players for unpainted miniatures by reducing their final score, I'm not sure how can strongly disagree with the first point. Many tournaments involving tabletop games require the figures to be painted to particiapte even for non-warhammer properties. Since that is the market that Heroscape wants to compete direclty with, I can imagine that the audience would still feel compelled to paint. I understand that your background isn't in tabletop minaiture wargaming so this may be surprising to you but I assure you my assumptions are based on how the current hobby is today. There is a reason why 24 hour paint sessions are a popular YouTube video format for tabletop wargaming and that is because people often stay up all night preparing for a tournament the next day.

And I also take umbrage to the idea that objective facts exist in pricing of products. What something retails for and what it is worth often do not always neatly interset. This Haslab is repeatedly telling you and others who make these costs assesstments that no, this set is not worth the price you think its worth. There is a surplus of miniatures in this set and as such the value of the overal set is not going to be indictative 1:1 on the contents of the set.

Imagine I sell you a car and I include 10 tires. You only need 4 so while the extra tires may have value in themselves, the price of the car can't be adjusted to include the costs of the extra tires unless I want to make the sale harder on the seller. That's what the issue is here. There is a surplus of product in this offering which begins to dilute the overall offering.