Destructable Buildings...

[ScottyZ]

I've been making some custom buildings and have been thinking about whether or not having them be destructable is a good idea and if so how to go about it.

Here's my thinking...
Pro: several of the buildings have 2nd stories with windows. Getting a couple ranged squads up there would be nice tactical advantage... until your opponent knocked down the building and they died. So, increased important decision making for strategy.

Con: many games do just fine without buildings being destructable so could it be it's just more trouble than it's worth.

I have a number of ideas about house rules to use if I decide to run with it, but I don't see any reason to reinvent the wheel if such custom rules already exist.

Can anyone enlighten me here? And my apologies if I put this in the wrong section, miss please move as needed.

[Yodaking]

If you are talking classic scape, I think there would only be a handful of figures that could realistically bring down a well built building in the short amount of time the battle takes place in. It wouldn't be very accurate to have a couple of squads of arrow gruts take one down with their bows. The giants could pull down a building but even then it would not be a quick event, your better off directing those rounds of attacks at the units. Missile attacks from Deathwalkers would punch holes in walls very effectively but might not bring the building down without a lucky shot.

If you are talking Marvel, then seeing the Hulk smash a building to bits would be rather thematic and rewarding. I think you would have to limit building destroying to only those units with super strength. Even then it should still take several rounds of attacking the building to achieve and I think those rounds would be better spent just attacking the opponents figures. I find that even though I can smash the warehouse ruin wall apart, I never do. Instead I just go around the wall and attack the guy behind it. Much more effective.

[ScottyZ]

You raise some good points and I agree that a determined squad of Arrow Grits shouldn't be able to bring down a building, but there are quite a few that I think could do significant damage and due to the nature of the game a hit is a hit so there could be some pretty unlikely situations that would arise.

The main reason I think it's an idea worth pursuing is game balance. We rarely use the castle pieces because of the advantage they confer on the occupants. It's conceivable that if you could get 3-4 squads with Wait Then Fire on the 2nd floor that they could really dominate the game. I think it helps restore some balance if you have to worry about Jotun or some soulborgs or AE unloading on you and collapsing the building killing all those squads at once with Collapsing Building damage (not sure how that would work but maybe 1 automatic wound, or 1-2 attack dice with no defense, or whatever... open to suggestions).
Maybe the KoW shouldn't be able to bring down a building (would look a little Monty Pythonesque), but assuming it's decided that it can some how be done how many hits would you think it would take, and should the building be rolling any defense dice? My current buildings aren't hardened military installations but that is a future possibility.

Along those lines I have been considering a cannon/artillery custom, has anyone done anything like that? Any thoughts there? (Draftable? Already on the battlefield? Special crew needed? Crew skill purchasable for a squad?).... so many questions.

[Tornado]

Cool ideas. Could you post some pics of your buildings?

I have been contemplating destructible buildings myself for Super'Scape. I will be working on them at some point.
Grishnahk has custom buildings you should check out.

[ScottyZ]

@Tornado, they aren't really that impressive, just the paper mache stuff you can get at Hobby Lobby. They aren't perfectly to scale but I wanted to spend more time with some other aspects of the map, which I will go into when I make my own custom terrain thread. I wanted to spend some time working out some of the details of using structures and playing without hexes (another interest) before going too crazy buying resin building models or making buildings from foam core.

But I should be posting some pics in the next few days. I think I have some interesting ideas for making urban maps which may interest others but it may take embracing playing without hexes.

[Tornado]

Are you going to use inches for movement?
We used to do this for Battletech. Every point of movement = 2 inches.

I think I saw the buildings you are talking about. I almost bought some myself.

[ScottyZ]

Yes, inches. Each hex is about 1 1/2" so a move of 4 would be 6". I've created some area of effect templates for things that affect adjacent figures, etc. I'm not really breaking any ground, lots of other games use measuring. It will also solve problems
with custom units I want to make that have large (>2 hex) bases. For example try figuring out movement rules for units that take 3 or 4 hexes.... it gets weird fast.

Edit... wow just checked out some of those huge custom buildings you referred to. I'm not even remotely considering skyscrapers, just small buildings for some urban-type skirmishes.

[Tornado]

Yeah Grish has some really cool custom buildings and destructible objects. I believe there are smaller, one or two story buildings besides the skyscrapers.

[IshMEL]

Re: artillery, I did attempt something like that against battlements and destructible objects -- have not actually tested these guys yet:


Wulfenbach Siege Engines. Blast the battlements! Common Squad. 50 pts.

Spoiler Alert!

Wulfenbach Siege Engines
General: Einar
Species: Clank
Common Squad
Class: Construct
Personality: Precise
Large 6
Life: 1
Move: 4
Range: 7
Attack: 3
Defense: 3

Points: 50

Figures: 2
Base: Single
Planet: Yarth

Battlement Blast
Instead of attacking, a Wulfenbach Siege Engine may use Battlement Blast. Choose a battlement within 7 clear sight spaces and roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 16 or higher, remove the battlement. If you roll a 20, you may also remove up to two battlements adjacent to the chosen battlement. All figures adjacent to a removed battlement receive one wound.

Siege Engine
A Wulfenbach Siege Engine ignores any special powers that give automatic shields to Destructible Objects.

Long-Range Artillery
When attacking a figure within 3 spaces, a Wulfenbach Siege Engine rolls 2 fewer attack dice.

Figure: Star Wars: LR-57 Combat Droid - 14

[ScottyZ]

I just picked up a few cannons (American Civil War era looking) but I have no idea what reasonable stats would look like... partly because I don't have stats of any sort for the buildings.

To expand on my building idea, I have painted a T-intersection street on a piece of foam core. There are 6 "lots" where buildings can be placed. The buildings are small, medium and large. Only 2 of the lots are big enough to hold the large buildings. So then map creation would work a little like drafting an army.

- a roll to see who goes first, winner places first building. Next player places next building. Etc. Passing your turn is allowed. After a preset number of turns have been taken the map is complete.

- then another roll to see who gets to pick which side to start on first. This way you may create a wonderfully strategic starting area and your opponent gets to start there.

- there will be a number of additional terrain pieces as well but I don't know if the players should get to place them or if they should be randomly distributed.

Any thoughts on this manner of map creation welcome.

[Yodaking]

I have a few cannons as well that I have not worked up cards for. The map building idea is a good one.

[Grishnakh]

I don't do destructible buildings for a variety of reasons. I guess my main problem is what do you put on the board once a building has been destroyed? I can't imagine simply removing it. A large building would create a ton of rubble. And then, if you use my rules on throwing and smashing with objects on the battlefield, you'd have to model all that rubble. Personally I think I'd rather spend my time creating new objects on the playing field that my superhero characters can interact with. Let them climb around on the buildings.