Public Design Workshop

[Ronin]

Originally Posted by johnny139

Toxin is really cool. Shifting Control is a super interesting way to represent the tug-of-war there. I agree on 6 base Attack being a bit too much. He's "stronger" than either Venom or Carnage but less in control, so I think the 7A/3D number he has when out of control is enough.

On the other hand, I don't think Healing Factor is really necessary... in the limited series, he heals well, but not as much as some other characters. It's not really "iconic." I'd rather bring his Life up, maybe all the way to 7 Life, since he's "stronger" than either Venom or Carnage.

In its place, I'd give him some sort of Tracking power, which he DOES do a lot of. Probably a take-off on the Classic one. Here's an idea:

SYMBIOTIC TRACKING
While moving, Toxin may add 3 to his Move value or add 2 spaces to his Tendril Swing movement for this turn. If he does, he cannot attack this turn.

Should play really interestingly regardless, though - I think this is my favorite design of yours so far!

Glad you like it! Good call on the Tracking power over Healing. I meant to have one in there, but I forgot about it when I went to actually write up the design; it's been a while since I read those Toxin minis.

Originally Posted by Yodaking

Why can't other figures reduce his defense? Kraven, Lady Shiva, Punisher, War Machine, Wolverine, X-23, & Lady Deathstrike would all like to know.

Well, they should talk to Banshee, Black Canary, Cyborg, Krypto, Pied Piper, Silver Banshee, and Siryn. Toxin doesn't have the same vulnerabilities as other symbiotes, so he should have some way of avoiding those defense-reducing powers. Might be a little over-broad right now, though. Maybe something more to the tune of "You may ignore Toxin's Species of Symbiote when rolling defense dice" ?

Originally Posted by johnny139

Is it really a great idea to keep him consistently at 3 Defense, though? I suppose the range would help keep that down... maybe -1 Range when he's not in control as well?

Yeah, I don't entirely buy that keeping him at 3 defense the whole match is the best move. Still, I'll probably either drop the range when he's out of control or just drop it to 1 altogether. It would lessen his effectiveness a little, but he's still going to be pretty good at snagging height with Tendril Swing, especially with that version of tracking to beef up his movement.

Originally Posted by Aggressive Sock

How about:

CONTROL STRUGGLE
If Toxin takes a turn this round, add 2 to his attack and subtract 2 from his defense number for the remainder of the round.

That's definitely shorter, but I feel like it might be simplifying a bit too far. It takes most of the value out of the original power. Also, I like to use markers (Order, Wound, or other, if necessary) as cues where possible, rather than rely on player's memories. Interruptions happen. I know I don't always get through a whole game in one sitting.

[japes]

Originally Posted by Ronin

That's definitely shorter, but I feel like it might be simplifying a bit too far. It takes most of the value out of the original power. Also, I like to use markers (Order, Wound, or other, if necessary) as cues where possible, rather than rely on player's memories. Interruptions happen. I know I don't always get through a whole game in one sitting.

Same here...does the above edit help?

[Ronin]

That version would curb his OM-manager synergy a bit. It lacks the ability to keep him under control by dropping an X on him, though; your options for keeping him under control are either to not take turns with him or to use an OM-manager. It would also make him less likely to be picked off while you don't have any OMs on him.

Theme-wise, I'm not sure I like the idea of Toxin flying off the handle every time you take a turn with him.

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by Karat

Next on the Kree bandwagon...only slightly modified from what johnny originally had.


NAME = KREE SOLDIER

SPECIES = KREE
UNIQUENESS = COMMON HERO
CLASS = SOLDIER
PERSONALITY = DISCIPLINED

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 1

MOVE = 5
RANGE = 5
ATTACK = 2
DEFENSE = 2

POINTS = ?

COLLECTIVE CONSCIOUSNESS
As long as there is at least one Kree Soldier still in play, for each destroyed Kree Soldier on this card, add 1 to your initiative roll, up to a maximum of +6.

KREE INVASION
After revealing an Order Marker on this card, choose a Unique Kree Hero you control within 8 clear sight spaces of a Kree Soldier. You may move and attack with as many Kree Soldiers as Wound Markers on the chosen Hero's card.

Is it an official rule that when a common figure is destroyed, you place that figure on a single copy of their card? If so, I wasn't aware of that fiddly bit, and wonder if we shouldn't just put in a sentence at the start of Collective Consciousness (which should probably have Kree in its title somewhere so we can reuse the generic form of that title!) that says something about "When a common Kree Soldier you control is destroyed, place its figure on this card."

Kree Invasion is really cool. I wonder if it shouldn't be called something like "Kree Assault Force" though? Or "Kree Landing Party"?

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by Karat

NAME = KREE CAPTAIN

SPECIES = KREE
UNIQUENESS = COMMON HERO
CLASS = CAPTAIN
PERSONALITY = DISCIPLINED

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 2

MOVE = 5
RANGE = 6
ATTACK = 3
DEFENSE = 4

POINTS = ?

COORDINATED ASSAULT
When attacking an opponent’s figure, you may add an additional attack die for every Kree you control within 4 spaces of the chosen figure up to a maximum of 3 additional attack dice.

If it's Life 2, this guy needs to be Uncommon. The power says "chose figure" but you never actually choose a figure. I'd reword for clarity like so:

COORDINATED KREE ASSAULT
When attacking an opponent’s figure with Kree Captain, you may add one to your attack for each Kree you control within 4 spaces of the defending figure, up to a maximum of 3 additional attack dice.

Cool stuff. He's basically just like a single hard-hitting mid-level Kree. Captain made me think he'd have more of a leader power, but I don't mind this approach.

Unless, and this is possible, did you intend the power to be like THIS?

COORDINATED KREE ASSAULT
When attacking an opponent’s figure with any Kree figure you control, you may add one to that attack for each Kree you control within 4 spaces of the defending figure, up to a maximum of 3 additional attack dice.

If that's the case, I think I'd rather go like this to make the Captain more relevant (and I actually like this version the best, I believe):

COORDINATED KREE ASSAULT
When attacking an opponent’s figure with any Kree figure you control, you may add one to your attack for each Kree Captain you control within 4 spaces of the defending figure, up to a maximum of 3 additional attack dice.

I might even go up to +4 with this version.

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by Karat

NAME = KREE COLONEL

SPECIES = KREE
UNIQUENESS = UNCOMMON HERO
CLASS = COLONEL
PERSONALITY = DISCIPLINED

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 3

MOVE = 5
RANGE = 6
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 4

POINTS = ?

KREE REINFORCEMENTS
If you win Initiative, and there is at least 1 Order Marker on this Army Card, you may place a previously destroyed Common Kree hero you control on any empty space adjacent to this Kree Colonel.

I love how this guy and the Kree Soldier work so well together.

[Dysole]

Technically by the rules you "fill up" one card of commons and then go to the next card. I don't see why replacing it with "For each destroyed Kree soldier"

~Dysole, wondering if he's missing something

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by Dysole

Technically by the rules you "fill up" one card of commons and then go to the next card. I don't see why replacing it with "For each destroyed Kree soldier"

~Dysole, wondering if he's missing something

Yeah, you're probably right that the card doesn't need to be mentioned at all. You can just say "for each of your Kree Soldiers that has been destroyed." The card mechanic just confuses things and, as you're mentioning, doesn't work with the game mechanics where you would be filling up individual cards each time one is destroyed and thus never trigger the power as written.

[dok]

I thought C3G short-circuited that part of the rulebook and just assumed that you always have only one card for each type of common in your army, anyway.

[Lazy Orang]

I think I'm with Bats and Dysole with their comments on the Kree - other than that, I think the Kree designs are really cool. One note - I'm fairly sure it's precedential for all ranks of the military (other than General - General Zodd shows that one) to have the class Soldier rather than their specific rank - I'd rather see the Captain and Colonel as Soldiers for their class.

[Yodaking]

I think we would need more Kree heroes with more life for Kree Invasion to be effective. Right now the Capt. does nothing for them at all & the Col. at best only lets them move & attack with 2 soldiers. Not very invasion like. Bumping up the Kree Capt. & Col. one life each would help but still not give an invasion feel. I know you are assuming Ronan will be close by, but he still needs to be severely wounded (3+ wounds) before the 'invasion' would begin and then he has to leave the fight so he can get within 8 spaces of all the soldiers sitting in the start zone. To overcome these issues I think I would tweak it slightly so you can at least be moving up multiple soldiers at once if not attacking with them.

KREE INVASION
After revealing an Order Marker on this card, choose a Unique Kree Hero you control within 8 clear sight spaces of a Kree Soldier. You may move as many Kree Soldiers as the Life total of the chosen Hero's card and attack with as many Kree Soldiers as Wound Markers on that card.

I'd also bump up the soldiers stats to 3/3. 2/2 is terrible and puts them below a street punk with a gun. Galaxy conquering trained soldiers with alien tech should be at least on the same level as the Joker Goons, Hired Guns, etc.

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by Yodaking

I think we would need more Kree heroes with more life for Kree Invasion to be effective. Right now the Capt. does nothing for them at all & the Col. at best only lets them move & attack with 2 soldiers. Not very invasion like. Bumping up the Kree Capt. & Col. one life each would help but still not give an invasion feel. I know you are assuming Ronan will be close by, but he still needs to be severely wounded (3+ wounds) before the 'invasion' would begin and then he has to leave the fight so he can get within 8 spaces of all the soldiers sitting in the start zone. To overcome these issues I think I would tweak it slightly so you can at least be moving up multiple soldiers at once if not attacking with them.

KREE INVASION
After revealing an Order Marker on this card, choose a Unique Kree Hero you control within 8 clear sight spaces of a Kree Soldier. You may move as many Kree Soldiers as the Life total of the chosen Hero's card and attack with as many Kree Soldiers as Wound Markers on that card.

I'd also bump up the soldiers stats to 3/3. 2/2 is terrible and puts them below a street punk with a gun. Galaxy conquering trained soldiers with alien tech should be at least on the same level as the Joker Goons, Hired Guns, etc.

Thinking about it, I agree 100%. Any thoughts on what I said about Class?