HeroScape is coming back!

[Taeblewalker]

Originally Posted by Nukatha

Your other points are good, but Braxas has butterfly wings.

Agreed!

[Robotech Master]

An Oni is also not traditionally a Cyclops-type creature; it would fit more in fact for it to be a Triclops.

And things like Robo-rats and Cyborg Wolves are not super recognizable common archetypes.

I think we have to take in a very measured, wide-view reassessment of what the game as whole has going on in terms of theme and design, and how it really should be open to just about anything. Just because one set like ROTV had some kind of motif going for it doesn't mean the classic game didn't change that up as it got more releases.

And always keep in mind the explanation that the old team gave us during the HasLab campaign that it was a condition of the HS revival that the game start to develop more things that were more recognizably their own IP. While there a personal reasons that someone may like the 'generic' or 'most common' interpretations of certain tropes, there ARE downsides to consider when it comes to the viability and marketing of that product.

[My Darling Panzer]

Originally Posted by Nukatha

Your other points are good, but Braxas has butterfly wings.

Haha I wouldn't say they are butterfly wings, maybe sorta visually but definitely not anatomically (starkly different venation), but I get your point. The point still stands with Braxas that, on first glance, this is more or less in the realm of what most people would think of when they think dragon. Braxas has a bit more of that ribbon-body look the way a Chinese dragon is typically portratyed.

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by Robotech Master

And always keep in mind the explanation that the old team gave us during the HasLab campaign that it was a condition of the HS revival that the game start to develop more things that were more recognizably their own IP. While there a personal reasons that someone may like the 'generic' or 'most common' interpretations of certain tropes, there ARE downsides to consider when it comes to the viability and marketing of that product.

I agree this is the rationale for the aesthetic shift. I think it underestimates how competitive the board game market is though and underestimates the importance of nostalgia in terms of Heroscape’s enduring viability. Getting deeper and more complex in theme while staying family-oriented and swingy/light in mechanics positions the product awkwardly with its two feet in separate worlds.

[My Darling Panzer]

Originally Posted by 'Scaper94

This was a talking point I, too, expressed during the initial HasLab revival. In the RotV set from 2004, it's crystal clear what Heroscape is: Dragons fighting samurai fighting robots fighting not-Legolas fighting not-Matrix characters. Super simple and an easy hook to grab the attention of new (including casual) audiences.

That simplicity which is, I think, a strong core element of Heroscape's DNA is lacking from the overall design and presentation of the revival. Is it wrong? Not necessarily - as long as Renegade understands that these product design decisions impact both the barrier of entry and the de facto target audience. With AoA, the hook is no longer "Hey, it's a big dragon fighting samurai fighting robots! Cool!" but instead "Hey, it's a big dragon fighting... alien pirates? And fighting bipedal polar bears? Huh, that's interesting."

The topic of complexity creep has been brought up in the various online groups, specifically pertaining to Ewashia's four special powers and the concern that new unit designs will become more complex overall compared to original units. There's certainly at least some validity to the concern, especially when zooming out and examining the current AoA presentation (more complex) compared to the original RotV presentation (more simple).

I agree with your assessment. It’s most certainly not wrong for them to embrace a new design aesthetic. The premise is of course the battle of all time, so encapsulating many other factions, including those not as readily recognizable to the general viewer, is inevitable. I like the balance old Heroscape struck in that, while the vast majority of the content was more tropey, they inserted their own imagination in figures like Warden 816, who are most certainly not particularly tropey, every so often to keep it fresh. For me, that balance has just tipped way too much in favor of the not quite as readily accessible. That’s why I never got into things like D&D. It’s just too "off kilter" for me.

I know I am in the minority, so it’s not like I expect Renegade to course correct or anything, but adding historical units would go a long way in helping (though I know what a delicate matter that is)!

[IAmBatman]

Are you sure you’re in the minority?

[Master Roshi]

Originally Posted by My Darling Panzer

I agree with your assessment. It’s most certainly not wrong for them to embrace a new design aesthetic. The premise is of course the battle of all time, so encapsulating many other factions, including those not as readily recognizable to the general viewer, is inevitable. I like the balance old Heroscape struck in that, while the vast majority of the content was more tropey, they inserted their own imagination in figures like Warden 816, who are most certainly not particularly tropey, every so often to keep it fresh. For me, that balance has just tipped way too much in favor of the not quite as readily accessible. That’s why I never got into things like D&D. It’s just too "off kilter" for me.

I know I am in the minority, so it’s not like I expect Renegade to course correct or anything, but adding historical units would go a long way in helping (though I know what a delicate matter that is)!

I do like the unique themes that AOA brings, and think that more Heroscape exclusive designs have a place in the game; the Marro themselves aren't like conventional depictions of aliens because of their skeletal appearance and tan/red coloring.
However similar to what you're saying, I think that this shouldn't entirely overwhelm the design process going forward. I think traditional human pirates should be added to the dawn raiders, and I think it would be cool if Vydar got the classic green aliens with big black eyes as a new faction.
Including both conventional and unique designs is actually necessary, Braxas and Xenithrax straying from the norm of dragon design is good because we already have Mimring, Nilfheim, and Charos. Otherwise, every dragon would be so similar that it would become boring.
Hopefully Renegade decides to swing back around sometime in the future and give us some cleaner archetypes to maintain this balance.

[Tornado]

Greys as a new faction is pretty smart. No one to complain about how they are presented and you may get ufo folks that buy it just for the figures.

[My Darling Panzer]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

Are you sure you’re in the minority?

My assertion was based on a combination of years of lurking on Heroscapers and the general maxim of my life that my opinion has been pretty consistently in the minority lol. But of course I could be wrong. Won't be the first or certainly the last!

[Shadowking]

I think all the AoA stuff is personally pretty fitting, it just packaged as one big thing is a bit of a departure in the sense that it neglects some of the older themes. I said during the original campaign, and stand by it now, that nothing from AoA is individually out of place but could really have used a couple historical/pseudo-historical units (and probably a slightly more "trope-y" unit or two) in the mix alongside the Kyrie to tie back to some additional facets of older themes. Standalone I don't think the Ironclads are any less fitting than Marro, for example, or Clockwork Combine than Gorillinators, Dryan than the Elf Wizards, etc etc.

[Master Roshi]

Originally Posted by Shadowking

I think all the AoA stuff is personally pretty fitting, it just packaged as one big thing is a bit of a departure in the sense that it neglects some of the older themes. I said during the original campaign, and stand by it now, that nothing from AoA is individually out of place but could really have used a couple historical/pseudo-historical units (and probably a slightly more "trope-y" unit or two) in the mix alongside the Kyrie to tie back to some additional facets of older themes. Standalone I don't think the Ironclads are any less fitting than Marro, for example, or Clockwork Combine than Gorillinators, Dryan than the Elf Wizards, etc etc.

This makes sense, if these figures had been introduced alongside old factions then their addition wouldn't have appeared so jarring

[Hogg]

Originally Posted by GaryLASQ

It's the Common Squads that will be the real test of my self-restraint, fiscally speaking.

Let me fix that for you: It's the Common Squads that will be the real test of Renegade's Intelligence, Packaging speaking.

Failure to properly proportion common to unique packs is one of the biggest things that hurt HeroScape sales the first time around. If Renegade mixes them together in a box, or makes you buy large redundant amounts of terrain to get multiple commons, it will impact sales greatly. I was willing to buy a second $40 SotM for some more stingers, I won't be buying second anything at these prices, unless it is a pack of only common units.

I also liked the orignal theme way better than AoA, which I don't like very much. We haven't seen Renegade develop any of their own units yet, and when they do I'm hoping it not be anymore AoA or amalgam units. I would like to see Historic, Fantasy, and Sci-Fi, but not blended together.