Green Wyrmling discussion and playtesting

[Tiranx]

I would like to see,

1 life
4 move
1 range
3 attack
4 defense

Left stats:
Dragon
Common Hero
Wyrmling
Valient
Small 3

Quozle's version of Fledling Counterstrike

Flying

Wyrmling Bonding

35 points
To me that seems like a perfect Green Wyrmling from Icarian.

[Shedim Kabal]

Originally Posted by Kinseth

Can you send me the playtesting card you are using? I cannot continue with this conversation without having the information you have in regards to how well the wyrm is playing in testing.

I think NecroBlade is referring to Killercactus' original submission to the SoV, which nyys tested and voted against. It received one yes vote from Killometer, with his notes on how it preformed.

Originally Posted by Tiranx

I would like to see,

1 life / 4 move / 1 range / 3 attack / 4 defense

Quozle's version of Fledling Counterstrike
Flying
Wyrmling Bonding

35 points

That's certainly weak enough to pass the SoV... But when would you draft it? Since Quozle's All Shield Counter Strike never activates, the White Wyrmling (five points cheaper for better move and same attack/defense with a special attack) is better in every single drafting scenario outside of the 4th Mass, and at 35 points is not even very good with them. Honestly, that is one of the last versions I'd want to see.

[Tiranx]

Originally Posted by Shedim Kabal

I think NecroBlade is referring to Killercactus' original submission to the SoV, which nyys tested and voted against. It received one yes vote from Killometer, with his notes on how it preformed.

That's certainly weak enough to pass the SoV... But when would you draft it? Since Quozle's All Shield Counter Strike never activates, the White Wyrmling (five points cheaper for better move and same attack/defense with a special attack) is better in every single drafting scenario outside of the 4th Mass, and at 35 points is not even very good with them. Honestly, that is one of the last versions I'd want to see.

I would really like to see the attack at 4, but can't see that ever getting passed. Is it plausible with 4 attack and a counterstrike that rarely activates?

[dok]

I think 4 attack is important to making the design interesting, actually. Otherwise, it's basically only there for defense.

As far as the "all shields" counterstrike concept, I must agree with dalu on this:

Originally Posted by dalu

There must be an error.

With defense 4, the probability to roll 4 shields is only 1/81 (1.25%).

It's weird that with a defense bonus, the probability to trigger is lowered.

With defense 5 (height or Gerda), probabilty = 1/243 (0.4%).
With defense 6 (Raelin), probability = 1/729 (0.14%).

You can easily play a whole game without triggering the power.
There are more than 50% chances that the power never triggers in 40 attacks against a Green Wyrmling.

This is significantly weaker than other versions (most notably, the "counterstrike on whiffs" version) that didn't seem to happen enough to be interesting.

It actually takes 56 attacks against a defense of 4 before the chance of rolling all shields cracks 50%.

[quozl]

What are the stats for a defense of 3?

[tannergx]

Originally Posted by dok

This is significantly weaker than other versions (most notably, the "counterstrike on whiffs" version) that didn't seem to happen enough to be interesting.

Does the whiff actually have to activate a lot to be effective though? I see it more as a mind-play: Does the attacker have enough confidence in their dice to roll against it? Fear of the whiff will make some players alter their moves even if the odds are with them.

And I'm big on a high defence version - Defence 5. Aligns with Charos, keeps the GW alive against a ranged opponent, and makes the pain of the whiff even scarier to think about for heroes.

Now that I have a few days off work, I need to playtest this.

~tgx

[Sir Dendrik]

Between counterstrike on a 'whiff' or on '1 or less' I think we've got the power for the card. It's a matter of testing if '1 or less' is definitively broken. If it is, 4A/4D with the whiff power feels like a safe floor for the card, getting by on stats.

[Shedim Kabal]

Originally Posted by quozl

What are the stats for a defense of 3?

2.2% against Attack 4
3.2% against Attack 3
3.4% against Attack 2
3.6% against Attack 1
3.8% against Attack 0

(Remember you need all shields and then excess shields on top of that).

[quozl]

We could lower the defense then and buff it up a bit:

FLEDGLING COUNTERSTRIKE
When rolling defense dice against a normal attack from an adjacent attacking figure, if a Green Wyrmling rolls a shield on every die, ignore any wounds and all shields rolled count as unblockable hits on the attacking figure.

[Shedim Kabal]

Originally Posted by quozl

We could lower the defense then and buff it up a bit:

FLEDGLING COUNTERSTRIKE
When rolling defense dice against a normal attack from an adjacent attacking figure, if a Green Wyrmling rolls a shield on every die, ignore any wounds and all shields rolled count as unblockable hits on the attacking figure.

You can treat that as Attack 0 then...

[quozl]

Originally Posted by Shedim Kabal

You can treat that as Attack 0 then...

Right. So for a Defense of 1, it would trigger 1/3 of the time, a Defense of 2 would trigger 1/9 of the time, and a Defense of 3 would trigger 1/27 of the time.

[Gurei-Ornery]

It would add an interesting twist to Tactical Switch, I like it.