Arkham's Design Brainstorming

[Arkham]

Originally Posted by japes

Then don't make them spells and make it a power on her card. If she's the only one that can use them. If others can use them then the cost should be in the spell.

Others can use them, just not as effectively.

BASIC ELEMENTAL CONTROL
Unique Spell
5 points

At the start of the game place one of each of the following on this card:

• ice tile
• shadow tile
• swamp water tile
• water tile

Instead of attacking, this figure may cast this spell. Remove a tile from this card and place it on either the space this figure occupies or any empty land space within 3 spaces of this figure, if the tile fits normally onto that space. After casting this spell, if this figure has the Mistress of Magic special power and there is at least one tile remaining on this card, you do not have to discard this card.

Others pay 5 points to use 1 of the tiles, Zatanna II will have 10-15 points built into her cost just for the added ability to use all tiles on said spell card. Not sure why this is an issue.

[japes]

Didn't realize that part so I'm clear there now, but for YK's point...if you make her a magician and then just give her a different power for the Mistress of Magic maybe something with a D20 roll to better mesh with Bats. Possibly something that works with this tile laying power.

[Yodaking]

Wasn't thinking about how the spells would be under priced for Zatanna I Arkham, I guess I never found Zatanna I to be overly effective for her points so giving her an added bonus from a new set of spells would be okay with me. Good idea about having a d20 power Japes. Maybe she can copy and play spells she sees cast (no limit) but needs to roll a d20 (bonus to the roll for common spells?) to do so? Then in a magic user battle she just keeps refueling her spell arsenal as the fight progresses.

[japes]

Originally Posted by Yodaking

Wasn't thinking about how the spells would be under priced for Zatanna I Arkham, I guess I never found Zatanna I to be overly effective for her points so giving her an added bonus from a new set of spells would be okay with me. Good idea about having a d20 power Japes. Maybe she can copy and play spells she sees cast (no limit) but needs to roll a d20 (bonus to the roll for common spells?) to do so? Then in a magic user battle she just keeps refueling her spell arsenal as the fight progresses.

technically that should be a simple mechanic. After the figure uses the (Common) spell before they discard it she can roll the D20 and if successful instead of discarding it she takes it.

[Arkham]

Some options:

MISTRESS OF MAGIC
Zatanna has the class of Magician in addition to what is listed on this card. After a figure within 5 clear sight spaces of Zatanna casts a Common spell, and before the spell card is discarded, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 14 or higher, instead of discarding the spell card, you may take control of the spell card.

Here's one that would benefit such things like Justice League markers and Battery Markers etc. that's essentially the opposite of what Zatanna I offers:

MISTRESS OF MAGIC
Zatanna has the class of Magician in addition to what is listed on this card. After taking a turn with Zatanna, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 15 or higher, you may choose a previously removed Marker from the Army Card of an adjacent, friendly figure, other than an Order Marker. Place the chosen Marker back onto that figure's Army Card.

We could tie it to the spells specifically, saving the spells themselves from having the text:

MISTRESS OF MAGIC
Zatanna has the class of Magician in addition to what is listed on this card. After casting the Elemental Control spell or the Advanced Elemental Control spell, if there is at least one Destructible Object or tile remaining on the spell card, you do not have to discard the spell card.

The last one is prob. my preference, or keeping it just the Magician dual class. I wanted to keep the design simple and low in points to encourage more spell drafting with her.

[johnny139]

Is Elemental Control something that's iconic for Zatanna? I've always seen her as primarily stage magic, but I don't really have any comic experience with her at all.

I think I'd probably prefer keeping the boosts on her card rather than on the spell cards, though, if only for simplicity.

[Arkham]

According to Wikipedia:

During a portion of her initial tenure with the Justice League, her powers were more limited, consisting in the manipulation of fire, air, water, and earth.

First thing mentioned on DC Wikia.

Also listed first, and more prominently, on Comic Vine.

It's also just a cool ability, that is useful given her synergy with the Justice League.

• Water for Aquaman and Mera
• Shadow for Batman and Obsidian
• Snow/Ice and Ice Rocks for Ice
• Lava/Lava Field for Firestorm and Fire(as well as Wonder Woman's lasso)
• Evergreen Tree and Grass/Swamp for Swamp Thing...

It gives her that swiss army knife appeal that you look for in a spell caster.

[japes]

Your second choice of replacing markers is probably going to be to good. Especially with your insistence on making her a Champion AND a Magician and double dipping on the JL markers making her fit into any Justice League team-up and providing Markers.

Is there a Magician synergy that I'm forgetting about that is important to you. My option would be to nix the Champion thing and stick with Magician only use your first option with the D20 roll to compliment the Batman III D20 boost since he gets a marker for Magicians. Recreating JLers as Champions seems wrong since all the classes were paired up with the JL Marker guys for specific reasons and uses. When the idea of creating a new power for Mistress of Magic was brought up it wasn't to add to what you had it was to get rid of the Double class but keep your key word power in place with a new power. The comments from others was against a double class after all.

[Arkham]

Didn't realize a dual class was such an issue.

If it is, then so be it. I'm still leaning towards power number 3 which is putting the wording that allows her to use the spells until all tiles are used, onto her own card instead of the spell card. Seems to fit well, and it'll be built into her points anyways.

I want to keep the card simple, and her powers simple. Offering an additional power is just going to drive up that cost, meaning less spells being drafted. I wanted to keep her high 100's to low 200's, so that you're encouraged to draft more spells.

[Lazy Orang]

For what it's worth, I've never minded dual-classing (my personal feelings are that you're too restrictive with it), and would like to see her with more JL synergy. Then again, she doesn't really feel that much like a Champion to me, specifically - not when you look at the others in the game, so....

[japes]

Originally Posted by Arkham

Didn't realize a dual class was such an issue.

If it is, then so be it. I'm still leaning towards power number 3 which is putting the wording that allows her to use the spells until all tiles are used, onto her own card instead of the spell card. Seems to fit well, and it'll be built into her points anyways.

I want to keep the card simple, and her powers simple. Offering an additional power is just going to drive up that cost, meaning less spells being drafted. I wanted to keep her high 100's to low 200's, so that you're encouraged to draft more spells.

The first option means that she can get spells for free from other figures as well which seemed really cool and according to YK was very thematic. Perhaps expand it so that she can learn from your own figures as well as opponents so you'd be even more encouraged to draft spells in case your opponent doesn't have a MD figure. Plus it's a D20 roll to go with Bats. I didn't mind the extra text on the spell I just forgot about it when you first brought her back up. My memory isn't the greatest ATM.

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by japes

The first option means that she can get spells for free from other figures as well which seemed really cool and according to YK was very thematic. Perhaps expand it so that she can learn from your own figures as well as opponents so you'd be even more encouraged to draft spells in case your opponent doesn't have a MD figure. Plus it's a D20 roll to go with Bats. I didn't mind the extra text on the spell I just forgot about it when you first brought her back up. My memory isn't the greatest ATM.

Well, since spells are tied to the army, not the figure, that may be a little weird - she wouldn't be learning the spell and using it herself, really, just stopping it from being discarded.