HoME Brainstorming Thread

[caps]

Originally Posted by Splash

Looks like Heroclix has an armored Olog-Hai for around $10. Combat Hex has at least one regular cave troll with a hammer for around $20ish and I think another harder to find one with a sword for a lot more. Does anyone know of any others that aren't too spendy?

Those first two sound fine. Let's brainstorm on those. Can you post some pictures?

Originally Posted by Splash

We could give the Moria orcs and archer goblins the same personality and do a bonding/synergy thing on both for common squads that have it.
Make them a more formidable combo for what might otherwise be low stat squads.

Maybe the melee ones could have something like

ORC HORDE
After revealing an order marker and before taking a turn with the Moria Orcs, you may move up to four Orcs with the <name> personality up to 5 spaces each.

Like the Glads and Blasts, or Nakitas and Goriliinators, but melee moving the range instead. I don't want the ranged ones to be able to move figures because it is too good for them to be able to move their screen and attack on the same turn. I would stick with 2/2 for all of them. I envision the melee ones as a 4-figure squad.

I'm not sure the melee ones need another power. But maybe they do?

The ranged ones should be a 3-figure squad, but I'm not sure what their power should be.

I think we should figure out what Middle Earth orcs have in common. Is it a power? A personality or class? A particular stat line? Is it the Orc Horde power I mentioned above?

Does anyone remember any passages from the book that distinguished between the different kinds of orcs? Anyone have some time to go digging?

Are the Moria Orcs and Great Eye Orcs distinct enough to be separate cards or should we just have one card? A way to do this might be to make them a 3 figure squad and give them

ORC CAPTAIN BONDING
At the beginning of the game, select a general. For the rest of the game, after revealing an order marker on the Orcs of Middle Earth and before taking a turn with them, you may first take a turn with an Orc Captain that follows the chosen general.

I didn't want to do bonding for the orcs, but if we want to have just one card for all orc squads in Middle Earth, then we could use the Captains to make Moria Orcs feel different from Great Eye Orcs. Obviously Uruks would still be a separate card.

[Chris Perkins]

Originally Posted by capsocrates

Those first two sound fine. Let's brainstorm on those. Can you post some pictures?

Maybe the melee ones could have something like

ORC HORDE
After revealing an order marker and before taking a turn with the Moria Orcs, you may move up to four Orcs with the <name> personality up to 5 spaces each.

Like the Glads and Blasts, or Nakitas and Goriliinators, but melee moving the range instead. I don't want the ranged ones to be able to move figures because it is too good for them to be able to move their screen and attack on the same turn. I would stick with 2/2 for all of them. I envision the melee ones as a 4-figure squad.

I'm not sure the melee ones need another power. But maybe they do?

The ranged ones should be a 3-figure squad, but I'm not sure what their power should be.

I think we should figure out what Middle Earth orcs have in common. Is it a power? A personality or class? A particular stat line? Is it the Orc Horde power I mentioned above?

Does anyone remember any passages from the book that distinguished between the different kinds of orcs? Anyone have some time to go digging?

Are the Moria Orcs and Great Eye Orcs distinct enough to be separate cards or should we just have one card? A way to do this might be to make them a 3 figure squad and give them

ORC CAPTAIN BONDING
At the beginning of the game, select a general. For the rest of the game, after revealing an order marker on the Orcs of Middle Earth and before taking a turn with them, you may first take a turn with an Orc Captain that follows the chosen general.

I didn't want to do bonding for the orcs, but if we want to have just one card for all orc squads in Middle Earth, then we could use the Captains to make Moria Orcs feel different from Great Eye Orcs. Obviously Uruks would still be a separate card.

I think it's worth making 2 separate cards there. There are tons of orcs, after all. I suggest we call them "Goblins" & "Mordor Orcs".

I think it would be interesting if goblins got some form of boost for being on cave and/or shadow spaces, like perhaps a +2 move if they spend their whole turn on those spaces. Thematic of being strongest in Moria & underground the misty mountains.

Then the "Mordor Orcs" could get some form of bonding, as you described. Would make a big enough difference in playability; the mordor orcs are normally the stronger squad except on certain dungeon maps, like the stingers / drudge divide.

I also like the Goblins being able to move their archers, low cost / low point squad but there are a lot of them in play, which seems quite thematic.

So the set of Orc squad cards with this proposal would be:
Goblins
Goblin Archers
Mordor Orcs
Morder Orc Archers
Uruk-hai
Uruk-hai Crossbowmen

Their could be a height increase / size difference there too, perhaps goblins are 3 / small, orcs are 4 / medium, and uruk-hai are 5 / medium.

[caps]

Originally Posted by The Fellowship of the Ring, Book 2, Chapter 5 The Bridge of Khazad-Dum

With a quick movement Gandalf stepped before the narrow openeing of the door and thrust forward his staff. There was a dazzling flash that lit the chamber and the passage outside. For an instant the wizard looked out. Arrows whined and whistled down the corridor as he sprang back.
"There are orcs, very many of them," he said. "And some are large and evil: black Uruks of Mordor. For the moment they are hanging back, but there is something else there. A great cave-troll, I think, or more than one. There is no hope of escape that way."

They weren't goblins, they were orcs. And some of them were orcs from Mordor, which I had forgotten. Gimli says in the chapter before that the orcs looted Moria of Mithril and gave it as tribute to Sauron.

I like your idea of Moria Orcs getting a bonus in shadow and dungeon spaces though.

I was rethinking the "Orc Captain" idea. If they bond, they should bond with Orc Champions, just like the other two orc squads. And we should consider making some of our new Orc heroes as Champions.

[Chris Perkins]

You're right, I mixed up the terms there a bit.

If I remember right, the "biggest" difference between orcs & goblins was that Tolkien used the word "goblins" in the Hobbit & largely used the word "Orcs" in LotR. I think they were the same species, just different vocabulary.

So we could either:
Include "Goblins" in a Hobbit-specific release
or
Change "Goblins" from my post to "Moria Orcs".

[caps]

Originally Posted by Chris Perkins

You're right, I mixed up the terms there a bit.

If I remember right, the "biggest" difference between orcs & goblins was that Tolkien used the word "goblins" in the Hobbit & largely used the word "Orcs" in LotR. I think they were the same species, just different vocabulary.

So we could either:
Include "Goblins" in a Hobbit-specific release
or
Change "Goblins" from my post to "Moria Orcs".

It seems you are correct about the vocabulary, and I learned something today. There are many sites explaining it, but this is the most succinct one.

[White Knight]

Goblins and orcs are the same thing. Uruk-hai are stronger orcs from Isengard.

From the LotR wiki:
"In the chapter "Over Hill and Under Hill" Tolkien states, "It is not unlikely that they invented some of the machines that have since troubled the world, especially the ingenious devices for killing large numbers of people at once, for wheels and engines and explosives always delighted them."

Goblin weapons include scimitars, axes, and spears, as well as bows. The great goblin-soldiers of Isengard, the "fighting Uruk-hai", are distinguished by their use of short, straight swords and long bows of yew.

But is also says that orcs are larger than goblins:

In the Hobbit, Tolkien describes orcs as a large variety of goblins, leading to the idea that goblins were of smaller build than orcs, although "The Great Goblin" and "Azog the Goblin" (as they were called in The Hobbit) were massive in size.

And here are some pictures of the Sabertooth Games LotR orcs:

Uruk-hai






Orcs










sd

[White Knight]

Originally Posted by White Knight

I will create a thread for Gandalf and a thread for Merry and Pippin and collect all the relevant conversations.

There is a workbook already for Gandalf the Grey started by TREX. Is there any way to get it changed to my thread so that I can take it over? Or should I just start a new thread?


It might take me a few days to get the threads up. There is a lot of data to collect.

[caps]

Originally Posted by White Knight

There is a workbook already for Gandalf the Grey started by TREX. Is there any way to get it changed to my thread so that I can take it over? Or should I just start a new thread?


It might take me a few days to get the threads up. There is a lot of data to collect.

Make a post in TREX's thread saying "Merge me to control the OP" and tagging Porkins (or another mod of this area) and they should be able to give you control of the OP.

You volunteered for the Lion's share. It took me an hour or two just to do Aragorn.

[Shiftrex]

CAVE TROLL

Troll
Uncommon Hero
Beast
Mindless
Large 7?

Life 8
Move 5
Range 1
Attack 5
Defense 2
Points

Ability Ideas:

1. Reach

2. Blundering Oaf/Daylight Burns: Subtract 1 attack die if attacking a figure on anything other than swamp (water), dungeon or shadow tiles.

3. Siege Monster/Huge Monster: Add 2 automatic skulls to this figure's attack when it is attacking a destructible object or a small figure.

4. Simple Minded: Order Markers cannot be moved from this card be any power.

5. Huge Strikes: When you roll a normal attack against a figure, roll 1 attack die against all figures adjacent to that figure (my intent is that they can defend). Cave Troll cannot be affected by Huge Strikes.

6. Devour the Small: a version of Grimnak's chomp ability that only works on small figures but I'd envision giving it a range of 2 to keep with the theme of being so big. Auto eat small squads, roll to eat a small hero.

I'm not saying even 2 of these abilities, maybe a Cave Troll should only have one and be a big pile of easy to hit but hard to bring down stats but I am brainstorming some things that would make thematic sense. He definitely needs to be different from Feral Troll and Ice Troll too. Can also spread around ideas between a standard cave troll, an armored cave troll and I'm almost hoping for a unique cave troll squad because of the guys from the Hobbit. Any thoughts?

[White Knight]

I'd prefer that the cave trolls had a high defense (and probably a lower life).

Their skin was hard to pierce even with a sword.

From the LotR wiki:

Cave-trolls were seen in Moria, and were also in the Ettenmoors. One was described as having dark greenish scales and black blood. Their hide was thick enough that when Boromir struck one on the arm his sword was notched and did no damage. However, Frodo Baggins was able to impale the "toeless" foot of the same troll with the enchanted sword Sting.

And we should start a new thread for the troll.

[Shiftrex]

Fair enough, thatll make a good differentiation on the statline. I think the abilities I threw out are still in character though.

[caps]

I was thinking 2 defense with Tough

I figured we would create new threads as we gain momentum around an idea.