The Book of Penguin (II)

[Ronin]

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

That immediately makes the design much less interesting, IMO. He no longer brings the Gotham faction together in the way he does now, and becomes, essentially, just an OM manager with a conditional initiative boost - much less interesting and much less strategic.

I don't see how the Insane part really adds any extra interesting strategic decision-making, as it stands. Either way, if we were to outright replace it with something else, how do you know that other thing is less interesting? We don't even know what that would be at this point.

My take here is that I can see Insane types working, but not as a major part of his synergy. Like, Penguin should be mainly working with the more straightforward criminal types, but I think having 1-2 signature Gotham freakshows in his army, with a distinct "outside hire" vibe would make sense for him. I think the SP version is a bit too Insane-heavy, but something like the version you proposed would hit the mark for me.

[Arkham]

I wouldn't say it's Insane heavy as-is. You're looking at drafting 1-2 Insane figures just to get the benefits, which seems fitting. Black Mask II would be Insane, and I plan to have him more on the front lines getting his hands dirty with his power set, so that's already 1 Insane right there. With his TI power benefiting from it. Overall though, I think all classes are important to his card, it's meant to encourage you to play several classes/personalities together.

But I'm all eyes for alternative options. I know it's easy for us to say what we don't like or wished was different, but ultimately until I get some options being suggested to consider, we're not getting anywhere.

[johnny139]

Ignoring the goofier stuff like trick umbrellas and trained pet birds and all that, when I think of "high class mobster" Penguin, these are the big number items for me.

- Is a legitimate businessman, with shady dealings behind the scenes. Lex Luthor style
- Is extremely self-conscious, hates being thought of as "lesser"
- Is petty and cruel and spiteful, will destroy the livelihood of anyone who crosses him

The simple solution there is to just ape Lex Luthor.

CRIMINAL DECEPTION
If a Criminal figure you control is within clear line of sight of Penguin, Penguin cannot be attacked and he will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

Or, if we want to be more active, a punisher mechanic for getting on his bad side.

NEVER CROSS A COBBLEPOT
If Penguin is targeted for an attack by an opponent's unit, for the remainder of the round, after taking a turn with Crime Syndicate, you may use Crime Syndicate one additional time. During that turn, your Criminal or Thief can only attack the unit that targeted Penguin.

But that's spitballing. If we're dead set on Insane synergy, I'd rather it be representative of Penguin at the end of his rope. Hiring the Joker should never be his first move, but it would absolutely be his Hail Mary pass.

LAST NUMBER IN THE ROLODEX
After revealing an Order Marker on this card, you may reveal the "X" Order Marker and choose a Unique Insane Hero you control. For the remainder of the game, all other powers on this card are negated, and before taking a turn with the Penguin, you may take a turn with the chosen Hero.

[japes]

Originally Posted by johnny139

Ignoring the goofier stuff like trick umbrellas and trained pet birds and all that, when I think of "high class mobster" Penguin, these are the big number items for me.

- Is a legitimate businessman, with shady dealings behind the scenes. Lex Luthor style
- Is extremely self-conscious, hates being thought of as "lesser"
- Is petty and cruel and spiteful, will destroy the livelihood of anyone who crosses him

The simple solution there is to just ape Lex Luthor.

CRIMINAL DECEPTION
If a Criminal figure you control is within clear line of sight of Penguin, Penguin cannot be attacked and he will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

Or, if we want to be more active, a punisher mechanic for getting on his bad side.

NEVER CROSS A COBBLEPOT
If Penguin is targeted for an attack by an opponent's unit, for the remainder of the round, after taking a turn with Crime Syndicate, you may use Crime Syndicate one additional time. During that turn, your Criminal or Thief can only attack the unit that targeted Penguin.

But that's spitballing. If we're dead set on Insane synergy, I'd rather it be representative of Penguin at the end of his rope. Hiring the Joker should never be his first move, but it would absolutely be his Hail Mary pass.

LAST NUMBER IN THE ROLODEX
After revealing an Order Marker on this card, you may reveal the "X" Order Marker and choose a Unique Insane Hero you control. For the remainder of the game, all other powers on this card are negated, and before taking a turn with the Penguin, you may take a turn with the chosen Hero.

I do like the last two...I really like the idea of Penguin being very vengeful if you attack him. That seems very Penguin like.

[Lazy Orang]

I actually quite like Last Number in the Rolodex. Love the name, too.

[Arkham]

I dig the suggestions, preferably the latter 2. Though, if we want Insane in there, we could always modify Never Cross a Cobblepot to have the additional turn go to an Insane figure:

NEVER CROSS A COBBLEPOT
If Penguin is targeted for an attack by an opponent's unit, for the remainder of the round, after taking a turn with Crime Syndicate, you may take a turn with an Insane figure you control. During that turn, that figure can only attack the unit that targeted Penguin.

It gets across the same theme. Penguin gets angry when he is slighted, so he gets desperate to besmirch the one who targeted him.

I'd be fine with Last Number in the Rolodex though. It gets across some great theme, and with Black Mask II having a Criminal/Insane hybrid synergy, playing the 2 together would still warrant enough Insane figures being around.

I'm game with whichever is preferred.

[Lazy Orang]

I'd definitely want Insane in there - it makes for more interesting Army building and ties the presently disparate Gotham Rogues together a bit. I like either your version of Never Cross a Cobblepot or Last Number in the Rolodex - the second is probably my preference, but that's half the name, if I'm honest.

[Arkham]

Ultimately I see this as a design encouraging you to play several OM hubs in 1 army. Two-Face II, Penguin II, Hush, Black Mask II, Ra's etc. all cohesively running the show. That's the goal of the design. Of course you can play just Penguin II as the OM hub, but with his first power, it's meant to bring in more Crime lords and Masterminds to run their respective gangs all under the same umbrella, no pun intended.

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by Arkham

Ultimately I see this as a design encouraging you to play several OM hubs in 1 army. Two-Face II, Penguin II, Hush, Black Mask II, Ra's etc. all cohesively running the show. That's the goal of the design. Of course you can play just Penguin II as the OM hub, but with his first power, it's meant to bring in more Crime lords and Masterminds to run their respective gangs all under the same umbrella, no pun intended.

Not to mention other potential, non-Gotham options - The Hood, Red Skull, Baron Zemo (either, though I'm thinking Helmut), and potentially even my ideas for an Injustice League Lex or Kingpin vII. Hell, even throw in Business Suit Lex and a Kryptonian. Sounds interesting.

[Arkham]

The best part is at least between Two-Face, Penguin, and Black Mask, I've planned them to cohesively work with each other and Criminals quite well, while each brings their own benefit to the table. Two-Face can potentially offer great offense or defense for the army, while Penguin can offer the safety of running things from a distance, and Black Mask can offer up movement(penciled in at least). Two-Face boosting Crime Lords, Penguin bringing in Thieves, and Black Mask working well with the Insane. That's the plan anyhow.

[Yodaking]

Just a thought, but if you want him to bring together the wide range of Gotham villains into one army perhaps make the initiative bonus rely on having one of several different types in your army (ala Starlord).

If you have at least one Insane figure, one Mastermind, and one Thief in your army, add 4 to your initiative roll.

[Arkham]

I kind of like the forced OMs on other Crime Lords/Masterminds, while needing 2 on Penguin. Since those are the classes that have several OM hubs as-is, it seems to get that point across. I'd hate to require the player to have 1 of each. As-is, you could play Penguin + Two-Face, Penguin + Black Mask, Penguin + Hush, Penguin + Ra's, or Penguin + Two-Face + Black Mask + Hush etc. and you'd receive the bonus and still have that incentive to draft other figure types based on the other OM hub synergy offerings.