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Reload this Page C3G Requests for Reevaluation
C3G Legacy Archive of all the original discussions and workshops from the first stage of C3G.


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  #349  
Old April 12th, 2014, 10:24 PM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation
I like that solution for Rogers as well. And doing what quozl posted for Sage.

quozl - are you OK with dok taking 4 reward points for posting what he did?
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  #350  
Old April 12th, 2014, 10:34 PM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation
Give him 40.
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  #351  
Old April 12th, 2014, 10:35 PM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation
Well, that seems a little high ...
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  #352  
Old April 12th, 2014, 11:02 PM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation
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Originally Posted by TrollBrute View Post

As for not designing anymore OM manipulators, that's completely missing the point. The Problem with these powers are not the type of power, but the complete lack of limitations.* No one has found Baron Zemo (the first one), or Kingpin, or Nick Fury broken. The problem is that Sage and Rogers are worlds beyond those guys in terms of what their powers can do. They completely take away any decisions in OM placement at the start of the round and thy allow for absurd combos.

*It's the same reason Mastermind is ridiculously good and Kitty Pryde is only okay. Kitty's power is limited to only one figure, and such, is very tricky to use, while Mastermind's power has no limitations and makes for some tough combos. Same with Jocasta being nearly broken. Doesn't mean that no more defensive powers should be made, just that we need to be careful with what limits we do (and don't) add to powers.
Fair enough. But as you said, there should always be some kind of limitation.
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  #353  
Old April 13th, 2014, 02:40 AM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation
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Originally Posted by TrollBrute View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hahma View Post
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Quote:
MASTER TACTICIAN
At the beginning of your turn, if there is at least one unrevealed Order Marker on this card, you may rearrange any unrevealed Order Markers on Army Cards you control.
Would this (below) help somewhat so that you can't have him sit on the 'X' and just move other OMs around? This way he's forced to have the first OM like Cap does, to maximize the power. So not only does it weaken the OM management, but the opponent will also have a good idea where OM 1 is going.

Quote:
MASTER TACTICIAN
At the beginning of your turn, if there is at least one unrevealed Order Marker on this card, you may rearrange any unrevealed Order Markers on Army Cards you control.

Also, seems like there shouldn't be any more OM manipulators designed, as someone is bound to find magical combos with them.
That's my favorite solution for Rogers, I like the way it mirrors Avengers Assemble.

As for not designing anymore OM manipulators, that's completely missing the point. The Problem with these powers are not the type of power, but the complete lack of limitations.* No one has found Baron Zemo (the first one), or Kingpin, or Nick Fury broken. The problem is that Sage and Rogers are worlds beyond those guys in terms of what their powers can do. They completely take away any decisions in OM placement at the start of the round and thy allow for absurd combos.

*It's the same reason Mastermind is ridiculously good and Kitty Pryde is only okay. Kitty's power is limited to only one figure, and such, is very tricky to use, while Mastermind's power has no limitations and makes for some tough combos. Same with Jocasta being nearly broken. Doesn't mean that no more defensive powers should be made, just that we need to be careful with what limits we do (and don't) add to powers.
This guy knows what he's talking about.
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  #354  
Old April 13th, 2014, 09:06 AM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation
I like the idea of the revealed OM requirement for Commander Rogers - makes it less potent, encourages you to have him in the fight, and ties him in with Captain America. For Sage, how about something that restricts the movement of an OM to when you reveal an OM on a Telepath (or Mutant, depending on what sort of faction she's more thematically tied to)? That makes her more tied to a Mutant or Telepath faction, while still usable in Armies without mutants or telepaths other than her - you just need the OM revealed on her for it to work.

I also don't think powers like this need to be shelved - it's just that these two are, from the sounds of it, a bit too good. I'd recommend playing around a bit more with other things - faction specific, clear sight and space restrictions, restrictions on the number of Order Markers moved, requirements to reveal an OM on the specific figure or a figure of a specific type, D20 roll requirements, or even something completely different like one which allows you to move all your OMs but only at the start of the round if you win initiative. These ideas would not only keep these sorts of powers in check, but would also allow you to make powers like these with different feels for different units, and keep things from becoming stale. Also, keep figure power level into account - while Telepathic Tactician may be brutal on 190 Point Sage, I'd imagine that there would be no problems with that exact same power being used on a big event hero. In fact, there haven't, as Doctor Manhattan has something very much like it.

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  #355  
Old April 13th, 2014, 09:16 AM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation
This is what I have for Judge Anderson.

LEGAL COUNSEL
After attacking an opponent's figure with Judge Anderson, you may immediately move an unrevealed Order Marker from an Army Card you control to any other Army Card you control, or any number of unrevealed Order Markers from this card to any other Army Card of a Judge you control.
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  #356  
Old April 13th, 2014, 09:20 AM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation
Shelving these types of powers was an extreme comment, and not totally serious.

That said, since the competitive players are the ones that will likely have the most issues because they are the ones playing the most seriously and concoct the nastiest combos available to make the opponent's game miserable by grinding them to dust under their boot. Maybe they already do this, but maybe they could be privy to the new units being designed and provide certain army builds that the must be tested with. That way, after the unit is released and out for a while, there won't be any of these overpowered issues.
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  #357  
Old April 13th, 2014, 09:31 AM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation
Nice suggestion Hahma. Personally, I would love to have a list of the 'strongest competitive builds' for future playtesting.
That way I can theory-scape out if a new figure would enhance them further and test it if need be.
Also if something new can defeat a strong build, there may be an issue.
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  #358  
Old April 13th, 2014, 01:20 PM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado View Post
Personally, I would love to have a list of the 'strongest competitive builds' for future playtesting.
That way I can theory-scape out if a new figure would enhance them further and test it if need be.
Also if something new can defeat a strong build, there may be an issue.
I've started a new thread HERE which might interest you.
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  #359  
Old April 13th, 2014, 01:29 PM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation
One nice thing I've noticed is that we at least have a very large diversity of super nasty combos. So even in a super competitive environment, it's not like one or two things only are consistently dominating.
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  #360  
Old April 23rd, 2014, 04:15 PM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation
I'd like to request that The Crow get in the queue here.
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