HaploScape: Keep the strategy half, drop the luck half!

[Anitar]

Originally Posted by sarashinai

How about:

Stealth Dodge
When the Deathwalker 7000 (for example) is attacked by a unit who is not adjacent, as long as Deathwalker 7000's current Defense exceeds the attack by at least 1, the Deathwalker 7000's Defense is not reduced by the attack.

That would make it too weak for the Krav Maga Agents (Stealth Dodge + 3 Defense), and kind of go against the way it works, i.e. that the attacker's Attack doesn't even matter when it works.

Counter Strike
I think this should work with the straight values. It means that you have to be more strategic with mixing ranged and melee attacks against CS targets; whittle them down first and then close in. I know Anitar's preference is to make it only 1 wound but I think this makes them underpowered.

An alternative, which I think would be neat and extends Anitar's system is to have the response from Counter Strike become Defense reduction on the attacking unit rather than wounds. The reduction would only come off at the end of the defender's next turn.

1. To clarify what he means here, we've discussed the possibility of Counter Strike becoming:
If attacked by someone too weak to do damage, they take a wound instead (under the circumstances that your particular Counter would normally activate).
2. I do kind of like the idea of defense-reducing for this (except for the "comes off next turn" bit). It makes it seem more like a Counter Strike, with the way that it works like an ordinary attack. I'll consider that.

Helm of Mitonsoul Aura
According to http://heroscape.wikia.com/wiki/Runa, the Helm of Mitonsoul Aura is a d20 power and would use Anitar's d20 result chart.

Ordinarily I'd be inclined to agree with you; but given that the person playing Runa would get complete control over the order in which everyone is targeted, it would get WAY too strong that way.

[IshMEL]

How do you keep track of the remaining defense for each individual Squad figure?

[Anitar]

Originally Posted by IshMEL

How do you keep track of the remaining defense for each individual Squad figure?

Probably by just putting the defense-down markers on their bases.

Except the Zettian Guards I guess; their defense is too high for that. You can put 'em on their heads instead.

[Anitar]

Comprehensive checklist of special powers and glyphs that need to be altered for any reason:

Spoiler Alert!

Self-Destruct
Shocking Grasp
Deadly Shot/Strike
Tough
Arcane Riposte
Counter Strike
Evil Eye Defense/Protection
Lumbering Bully
Iron Resolve
Iron Tough
Reinforced/Strong Defense
Warforged Resolve
Stealth Dodge
Defensive Agility
One Shield Defense
Shield(s) of Valor
Rod of Negation 16
Ullar Enhanced Rifle SA
Sharpshooter
Maul
Gift of the Empress Aura
Helm of Mitonsoul Aura
Soul Devour
Zombie Onslaught, Encircle, and Arrow Volley SAs
Lethal Sting
Ullar's Bolt of the Witherwood
Venomous Sting
Mine!
Scarab of Invulnerability
Mortal Strike
Lightning Slash SA
Autoload SA
Blind Rage SA
Coil Crush
Disarm Traps
Fire Blast SA
Heroic Defense Aura
Glyph of Oreld
Jandar's Dispatch
Leaf of the Home Tree Aura
Glyph of Mitonsoul
Glyph of Nilrend
Orc Battle Cry Aura
Glyph of Sturla

Less-comprehensive list of changes:
(starred units are C3V/SoV)

Self-Destruct (Deathwalker 7000):
Rolls a 10 every time. Basically the same as any d20 power, but it only works once so don't bother keeping track.

Tough, Adjacent Tough 1, Warforged Resolve, Iron Resolve, Iron Tough, Reinforced Defense, Strong Defense (Gorillinators, Hatamoto Taro, Warforged Soldiers, Heirloom, Iron Golem, Nhah Scirh Cultists*, Fortress Door, Breakable Wall Section):
Instead of "adding automatic shields", these powers-- like Heroic Defense-- block 1 point of attack (per auto-shield) before it can do anything.

One Shield Defense (Crixus, Migol Ironwill):
Instead of defending normally, you may lose 1 Defense and take 1 wound.
Not very useful except against really strong attackers, just like the original. Only works if you have defense remaining.

Leaf of the Home Tree Aura (Acolarh):
Activates if you roll a 16 or higher, rather than using Valkyrie dice.
This makes it MORE likely to work by about 2%.

Rod of Negation 16 (Morsbane):
Because it simply will not do to have a guaranteed destruction effect on any figure from a range, rolling a 20 only inflicts negation. To compensate, the minimum roll is now 15.

[sarashinai]

Originally Posted by Anitar

Probably by just putting the defense-down markers on their bases.

Except the Zettian Guards I guess; their defense is too high for that. You can put 'em on their heads instead.

LOVE IT!

[sarashinai]

Originally Posted by Anitar

Ah ha! My ignorance strikes again! I was working under the assumption that you got to activate all your units before the other player did. With play alternating between the two, the reduction wouldn't have to stick.

Originally Posted by Anitar

Ordinarily I'd be inclined to agree with you; but given that the person playing Runa would get complete control over the order in which everyone is targeted, it would get WAY too strong that way.

Okay, but they'd only be able to destroy one target anyway, no?

[Anitar]

Originally Posted by sarashinai

Okay, but they'd only be able to destroy one target anyway, no?

Yes, but the problem is that that'd let the Runa player periodically destroy any figure at all that she can get near.

Well actually it could be two figures if the area is crowded enough.

[Anitar]

Spoiler Alert!

Self-Destruct
Shocking Grasp
Deadly Shot/Strike
Tough
Arcane Riposte
Counter Strike
Evil Eye Defense/Protection
Lumbering Bully
Iron Resolve
Iron Tough
Reinforced/Strong Defense
Warforged Resolve
Stealth Dodge
Defensive Agility
One Shield Defense
Shield(s) of Valor
Rod of Negation 16
Ullar Enhanced Rifle SA
Sharpshooter
Maul
Gift of the Empress Aura
Helm of Mitonsoul Aura
Soul Devour
Zombie Onslaught, Encircle, and Arrow Volley SAs
Lethal Sting
Ullar's Bolt of the Witherwood
Venomous Sting
Mine!
Scarab of Invulnerability
Mortal Strike
Lightning Slash SA
Autoload SA
Blind Rage SA
Coil Crush
Disarm Traps
Fire Blast SA
Heroic Defense Aura
Glyph of Oreld
Jandar's Dispatch
Leaf of the Home Tree Aura
Glyph of Mitonsoul
Glyph of Nilrend
Orc Battle Cry Aura
Glyph of Sturla

Counter Strike, Evil Eye Defense, Evil Eye Protection, Arcane Riposte, Lumbering Bully (Charos, Izumi Samurai, Kozuke Samurai, Kaemon Awa, Tagawa Samurai, Tagawa Samurai Archers, Captain America, Tomoe Gozen*, Kantono Daishi*, Gurei-oni, Torin, Sharwin Wildborn, Ogre Pulverizer):
Instead of equalling the number of "excess shields", the strength of the counter equals any defense the defender has remaining. Like attacks, it reduces Defense before Life.

--Example--
Feral Troll (3 Attack, 1 Defense, 8 Life)
attacks
Izumi Samurai (5 Defense, Counter Strike)
The Samurai loses 3 defense to the attack. 2 defense remains, and thus the counter has 2 power. 1 point of that removes the Troll's sole point of defense; the other is taken as a wound.

Deadly Shot, Deadly Strike (Omnicron Snipers, Zetacron, Minions of Utgar, Migol Ironwill):
When attacking, for each point of attack you have, you can (as applicable) subtract two Defense or Life from the defender instead of one. Note that you cannot use a single Atk point to remove one of each.

Fire Blast Special Attack (Erevan Sunshadow):
Use a d20 roll to determine whether the "all-skulls" effect succeeds. The required roll is:
for 2 Attack, 16-20.
for 3 Attack, 18-20.
for 4 Attack, 20.

Maul, Venomous Sting, Lethal Sting (Deathstalkers, Wyvern, Rechets of Bogdan):
Use a d20 roll to determine whether it succeeds. If you roll 18+, double the power of the attack (or, in the Rechets' case, destroy the defender).

Scarab of Invulnerability, Glyph of Nilrend, Glyph of Oreld:
Use the current d20 result of whichever figure activated the glyph. If it doesn't have one, use the result of the nearest figure you control who does.

Autoload Special Attack (Laglor):
Always results in attacking twice. The first attack only has 2 power, to simulate one of the dice landing on the "blank" Valkyrie symbol.

Blind Rage Special Attack (Sir Hawthorne):
Always results in attacking twice, which was the average result anyway.

Remaining powers:

Spoiler Alert!

Shocking Grasp
Stealth Dodge & Defensive Agility
Shield(s) of Valor
Ullar Enhanced Rifle SA
Sharpshooter
Gift of the Empress Aura
Helm of Mitonsoul Aura, Glyph of Mitonsoul, Glyph of Sturla
Soul Devour
Zombie Onslaught, Encircle, and Arrow Volley SAs
Ullar's Bolt of the Witherwood
Mortal Strike
Lightning Slash SA
Heroic Defense Aura
Jandar's Dispatch
Orc Battle Cry Aura

[sarashinai]

Originally Posted by Anitar

That would make it too weak for the Krav Maga Agents (Stealth Dodge + 3 Defense), and kind of go against the way it works, i.e. that the attacker's Attack doesn't even matter when it works.

I agree, that would make it too weak for the Krav Maga Agents but I don't see what you mean about going against the way it works. In the original, you only had to roll one shield to block all damage, how is that stylistically different from my suggestion?

Here's a weird idea, how about the Attack value is reduced by the range of the attacker? Example:

Agent Carr (Attack 2) vs. Krav Maga Agent:
Range 3 - Attack is 2 - 3 = no hit
Range 2 - Attack is 2 - 2 = no hit
Range 1 - Attack is 2 - 1 = 1 Defense reduction / wound

This means the power works the same for both Krav Maga Agents and Deathwalker 7K and still respects the power difference between the KMA and DW7K.

What it doesn't do is help with Defensive Agility. Though, if you don't mind them becoming two different abilities, you could make Defensive Agility mean that the unit's Defense is doubled against melee attacks (or the Attack is halved). So...

Krav Maga Agents (Attack 3) vs. Warriors of Ashra (Defense 3) from a range of 2 would result in the WOA's Defense dropping to 0 (3 - 3) but Runa (Attack 3) vs. Warriors of Ashra would result in the WOA's Defense dropping to 2 (3 - 3 / 2).

Originally Posted by Anitar

Ordinarily I'd be inclined to agree with you; but given that the person playing Runa would get complete control over the order in which everyone is targeted, it would get WAY too strong that way.

That's fair. You could impose an arbitrary point of origin (e.g. start with the unit that is nearest in range and closest to the "northern" face of the hex that Runa is standing in) and that the "count" has to move clockwise and outward from Runa. That seems prone to argumentation, though, and not elegant enough.

Since the result is predictable, you could say it's the opponent's choice of starting unit and that the count uses the same process as the paragraph above.

Another way, which could be terrifying for opponents or frustrating for the controller or both, would be to have each "roll" apply to the ring around Runa. So you'd apply the first result to all the units at range 1, the next result to all the units at range 2, then the last result to all the units at range 3. A caveat could be that Runa can only destroy units whose Defense is lower than Runa's attack.

Conversely, you could make the Helm power a special attack rather than an aura. The Defense of any unit affected by the power is reduced by Runa's Attack value. Since the power is used before Runa's normal attack, this could be tactically advantageous without being devastating and it means that you wouldn't have to worry "so much" about letting Runa's controller choose the order as it wouldn't always mean instant kills.

[Anitar]

Alternative Stealth Dodge/Defensive Agility proposal that keeps it strong at the appropriate ranges:

Unless the attack exceeds the defender's Defense by at least 2, it does no damage at all. Not even to your defense.


And for Helm of Mitonsoul...

I could go for a consistent yet arbitrary order. Such as, the order of spaces that it checks would go:
From Runa, one space toward her player's side. Circle around clockwise, and once you're done with that, do the same but two spaces away, then three.

[Anitar]

New Rule: Treasure Glyph Traps

In addition to each army card's set of d20 results, in a battle with face-down treasure glyphs, each player has one d20 result for all trap rolls (which, yes, also starts at 10).

Because you now know when the traps will trigger on you, some of them will be changed to prevent you from avoiding their effects.


Rule Modification: Half-Wounds

Instead of giving one half of a wound, effects such as leaving engagement attacks and falling damage will be changed to alternate between wounding and not wounding. Each player has one result for "half wounds" shared by all of their figures. It's cleaner this way.

[Anitar]

Zombie Onslaught SA, Encircle SA, Arrow Volley SA (Zombies of Morindan, Ashigaru Yari, Roman Archers):
Increase Attack value to 8.

Glyph of Mitonsoul, Helm of Mitonsoul Aura, Soul Devour, Glyph of Sturla (Runa, Shades of Bleakwoode):
To prevent abuse of this d20 system, these operate in reading order from the player's perspective: starting at the far end, in rows from left to right. (an arbitrary yet consistent order, which I already established would be a good thing)
In the case of Sturla, the army cards are what's being ordered by position.
In the case of Soul Devour, it's the Shades.
In both Mitonsoul powers, it's the potential victims.

Heroic Defense Aura (Hatamoto Taro):
Allies' defenses are multiplied by 1.5 and rounded up, after applying all other modifiers.

Orc Battle Cry Aura (Ornak):
Allies' normal attacks are multiplied by 1.5 and rounded up, after applying all other modifiers.

Ullar Enhanced Rifle SA (Deadeye Dan):
This is calculated in the same way as leaving engagement attacks and falling damage.

Defensive Agility (Warriors of Ashra):
Their defense cannot be reduced from melee attacks.

Stealth Dodge (Krav Maga Agents, Deathwalker 7000):
Their defense cannot be reduced from ranged attacks, AND one additional point of damage is always blocked.

Marked for Destruction (Deathcommander Mark 3*):
Adds 1 attack.

Jandar's Dispatch (Sir Gilbert):
X always equal 2.

Ullar's Bolt of the Witherwood, Glyph of Bolt of the Witherwood (Atlaga the Kyrie Warrior):
Always succeeds. However, you must designate the army card of its target at the start of the game, and it will not work on anyone else.

Gift of the Empress Aura (Empress Kiova):
It takes 2 points of attack rather than 1 to strip each point of defense from the affected figures.

Mortal Strike (Master of the Hunt):
Double inflicted wounds. Yes, this is strong and kills heroes. Yes, that's just about exactly what it does in vanilla 'scape.

Sharpshooter (Deadeye Dan):
In the interest of preventing him from becoming a massively field-influencing threat once his d20 roll gets high enough, it will fail on anything less than 21 on the first two order markers. To compensate, he only needs an 18 on the third.
(if the scenario rules permit a turn that does not use a numbered order marker, it also requires a 21)

Remaining powers:
Shocking Grasp (Sharwin Wildborn)
Shield(s) of Valor (Sentinels of Jandar, Ulfrid Hornwrangler*)
Lightning Slash Special Attack (Varkaanan Quickblades*)