Sports: NFL

[Crixus33]

Originally Posted by dok

Nice article, DS. I didn't know you wrote there.

Wait I know his title says D_S is a fanboy, but when did he become a Tom Brady fanboy. (shudder)

[Dad_Scaper]

No, didn't say that, either.

[Crixus33]

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

No, didn't say that, either.

I meant your title.

[Dad_Scaper]

Heh. No, that's for Lords of Waterdeep.

[Aldin]

I remember Joe Montana being called "Joe Cool" for how he always passed the "eye test" for performance in the most stressful parts of the biggest games. By any measure, Montana had an unbelievably good supporting cast. You could make arguments for about half of some of those 80s teams being in the Hall of Fame.

But football is weird in a way we tend to comment on as "any given Sunday". The best teams don't always win, the most talent doesn't always show and the greatest coaches don't always come out on top. Montana was a guy that just seemed to have the knack of making "any given Sunday" fall his way. Call it leadership, call it calm in the face of the storm, call it willing his team to victory, call it what you will. Montana was that most nebulous of things - a guy who wins championships.

Manning isn't. He's a lot of amazing things, but for whatever reason, the football gods of "any given Sunday" have declared that he will rarely hold high the trophy. He doesn't pass the eye test of a guy you want leading your team when it absolutely matters most. Not that he isn't great, just that there are several other guys I'd rather have there, in that moment, with whatever it is that makes those big moments fall to them instead of holding them up again and again as the goat.

So I thought it was a good article. I like to think that a lot of folks struggle with this nebulous something which declares Manning great without seeing the ultimate ability to win it all within him. And yes, he's won a Super Bowl. But sometimes it feels to me like the exception that proves the rule.

~Aldin, indefinably

[dok]

Aldin, you know that was a parody article, right?

Montana was a hall of famer by any measure, including talent or skill or stats. But a huge part of the narrative of of Montana's "cool" really was that he had a coach who was ahead of his time and an insane supporting cast. And again, defense matters. The 49er defense was as highly ranked or higher ranked than the 49er offense in 6 of the 10 years of Montana's dominant run from 1981-1990.

Every time people talk about football like it's a cage match between the two quarterbacks, I just kind of throw up my hands. There's all this lip service to it being the "ultimate team sport", which it kind of is, and yet people forget about this when talking about the most important player on the field. Yes, the QB is the most important, but he still has less impact on the game than, say, the starting point guard on a basketball team.

[Aldin]

dok,

I started the article knowing it was intended as satire and then an odd thing happened. You know how sometimes someone cracks a joke and everyone just looks uncomfortable around them because even though the joke was intended to be funny, it was too uncomfortably close to the truth for it to carry it's value as humor? The article kinda did that with me. So much so that by the time I finished I forgot it was intended as satire.

Call it a failure on my part.

For the rest, I already pointed out that Montana had an amazing supporting cast. And I noted the team rather than the offense. There's no question in my mind that those were great defenses. Somehow I think the whole "any given Sunday" concept I was promoting got lost in your careful analysis. The point is that as good as those teams were, they "only" won four Super Bowls from 1981-1989.

What happened those other five years? I tend to think there isn't a best team in football, only somewhere between half-a-dozen and a dozen every year that could, if the cards fall the right way, win it all.

Now let's go with a car analogy that doesn't work really well but kinda gets the point across anyway. If the team is the engine of a car, then the quarterback is the distributor. When your distributor isn't working right, nothing else functions properly.

To semi-translate it to football, a great distributor will make a great engine hum and keep an average one cranking. An average distributor will keep a great engine cranking and have fits and starts with an average one. And as the wear and tear hits the engine and the heat rises, some distributors are better with the higher heat and longer run times and some run best when the engine is cooler and over shorter distances.

So I see Manning as a guy who keeps an average team cranking and makes a great one hum, but somehow he has a tendency to start failing when his team needs him most. Meanwhile, I see Brady as a guy who isn't quite as good overall, but in the toughest moments has the tendencies that get the most out of the team.

~Aldin, playing word games

[Dad_Scaper]

Defense matters, and so do special teams and receivers and the offensive line. All NFL quarterbacks are blessed with some virtues, and some flaws, in the team around them. Amid the other moving parts, whatever they are, the offense - flowing through the quarterback - needs to do its part to put up more points than the other team.

Early in his career in Indy, Peyton was the only strength of his team. Then the Colts built a defense and a receiving corps and a run game and he (and they) finally picked up a championship. That's what happens. He's had an excellent team around him in Denver, with little postseason glory to show for it. Nothing against him, but facts - as measured in wins - are facts.

[Hahma]

Heck, several average QB's have been on teams that have won Superbowls.

Terry Bradshaw won 4 Superbowls so he's as good as Montana, and both had crappy supporting casts.

[IAmBatman]

They're all winners for what they've accomplished. Being a champion is an overrated difference at times.

[Hahma]

Bears suck so bad.

The entire franchise needs to be fired. They all suck. Top to bottom.

[Dad_Scaper]

Originally Posted by Hahma

Bears suck so bad.

The entire franchise needs to be fired. They all suck. Top to bottom.

It's that kind of night, for sure.