The Book of Foggy Nelson

[redstang]

I like the idea of restricting the additional X. But placement and reveal on Foggy and bonus to Matt's attack just feels off thematically. I would prefer to limit its reveal to Foggy's Card but allowing it to be placed on Foggy's Card or a Client's Card. Then going back to providing initiative bonus for OMs on the Client Card or allowing reveal on a Client Card but specifically for bonus to Murdock's movement. Or scrap the additional X altogether and go back to Client selection and Initiative Bonus for OMs and maybe adding something into that.

[MrNobody]

Honestly I know people had concerns about handing out such a "high level" effect like an extra OM on such a "low level" character like Foggy, so if that aspect of the design isn't singing I don't think we need to fight to keep it.

Does something like this strike your fancy? It still allows you to get 2 "X" OMs on your Matt, but asks you to fight for it a bit more. I also think it's useful with almost any permutation of Matts we have so far. Civie Matt ovbviously likes the X OM, and Daredevil I obviously likes the Criminal tag. But even with Daredevil II, you can just toss the X on Foggy's card to get the initiative boost and potentially deprive the enemy of their X.

NELSON AND MURDOCK
If there is at least one Order Marker on this Army Card and one Order Marker on the Army Card of a Matt Murdock you control, you may add 4 to your initiative roll.

CRIMINAL DISCOVERY
If you win initiative, you may look at an unrevealed Order Marker at random from any opponent's Army Card. If it is an "X" Order Marker, you may either:
-place that Order Marker on a Matt Murdock Army Card you control. At the end of the round, all Order Markers moved by this special power return to the player who controlled the Order Markers before they were moved.
-consider all figures for the chosen card to have the Class of Criminal in addition to what is listed on the card.

[redstang]

Originally Posted by MrNobody

Honestly I know people had concerns about handing out such a "high level" effect like an extra OM on such a "low level" character like Foggy, so if that aspect of the design isn't singing I don't think we need to fight to keep it.

Does something like this strike your fancy? It still allows you to get 2 "X" OMs on your Matt, but asks you to fight for it a bit more. I also think it's useful with almost any permutation of Matts we have so far. Civie Matt ovbviously likes the X OM, and Daredevil I obviously likes the Criminal tag. But even with Daredevil II, you can just toss the X on Foggy's card to get the initiative boost and potentially deprive the enemy of their X.

I made some changes to Mr. Nobody's proposed language.


NELSON AND MURDOCK
If there is at least one Order Marker on this Army Card and one Order Marker on an Army Card you control that has the identity of Matt Murdock, you may add 4 to your initiative roll.

CRIMINAL DISCOVERY
If you won initiative this round, you may immediately choose an unrevealed Order Marker on any Army Card that an opponent controls. That opponent must then allow you to view the chosen Order Marker. If it is an "X" Order Marker, you may either:
-place that Order Marker on a Matt Murdock Army Card you control, or
-for this round, consider all figures for the chosen Army Card to have the Class of Criminal in addition to what is listed on the card. At the end of the round, all Order Markers moved by this special power return to the player who controlled the Order Markers before they were moved.

[redstang]

I do like that. I would note that as currently written, if you find the X you would either negate Jessica Jones Pound the Pavement by moving the X off of the opponents card, or potentially doubling Jessica's effect on Daredevil 1 by leaving it and turning someone Criminal.

[MrNobody]

Yeah, I figured if you're:
-bringing Citizen Foggy, Vigilante Matt, and Fighter Jessica,
-winning initiative,
-guessing the correct OM,
-attacking with Jessica,
-and then attacking with Matt,
you deserve a decent boost, since that's so much stuff.

[redstang]

When you do the math like that, yeah I wouldn't see a problem with it either.

[IAmBatman]

I had some concerns when Nobody floated the idea, but seeing it all written out like that, I dig it. Mostly ....

The one flaw, I think, is that unless you know the enemy as a good use for the "X", the risk reward of placing your X on Foggy in order to try to get a new X is a bit off. And if you're using Matt Murdock (and I'm assuming you would) there's no way I'm not putting the "X" on him for Public Defender.

How about Nelson and Murdock adds 1 to your initiative roll for each Order Marker on Foggy's or Matt's Army Card? That way the bonus is still available, but there's not so much "X" tension?

[redstang]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

I had some concerns when Nobody floated the idea, but seeing it all written out like that, I dig it. Mostly ....

The one flaw, I think, is that unless you know the enemy as a good use for the "X", the risk reward of placing your X on Foggy in order to try to get a new X is a bit off. And if you're using Matt Murdock (and I'm assuming you would) there's no way I'm not putting the "X" on him for Public Defender.

How about Nelson and Murdock adds 1 to your initiative roll for each Order Marker on Foggy's or Matt's Army Card? That way the bonus is still available, but there's not so much "X" tension?

If we do that, don't we end up back where we are at right now though, with Matt Murdock taking on double X's? Or do think the work needed to do so enough to keep it competitive and not overbearing?

[MrNobody]

Yeah, my thinking was that requiring at least one OM on Foggy was the “cost” to earn the boost. If you can gain the boost from OM dumping on Matt I’m probably never putting anything on Foggy, so the power seems a little silly?

Maybe something to feel out in playtesting though?

[IAmBatman]

The more I think about it, the more I think it works as-is, yeah. You just won't bother putting an Order Marker on Foggy until Matt is out of the picture. You'll just hope to win initiative naturally to double up on "X" Markers on Matt. And then when Matt switches to Daredevil, you'll go for the initiative boost and the Criminal classing.

[redstang]

I've updated the SP and plan on running playtests with the new version, hopefully this weekend.

[tcglkn]

Can we get the initial and all the other tests linked to the OP?