Jexik's Idea Mill (ROTV Revamp p. 8 & Ninja p.9)

[Jexik]

HEROSCAPE and all related characters are trademarks of Hasbro. © 2006 Hasbro. All Rights Reserved.

I accidentally copied over this post. I'll try to recreate it.

Hey guys, I stink at making cards because my computer is 7 years old. There should be Dreadguls already, amirite?

Dreadguls
(I based their strength and points on the Romans and Greeks. Despite the fact that the Tarn are Unique, I felt that making these guys common would help reflect their superior numbers.)



Human
Common Squad (4)
Warriors
Wild
Medium 5 (Could change depending on models)

Move 4
Range 1
Attack 3
Defense 2

50 points

Berserker Charge
After moving and before attacking, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 15 or higher, any figures that have already moved this turn may move again.

Wild Warlord Berserker Charge Bonding
Before taking a turn with Dreadguls, you may first take a turn with any Wild Warlord that you control. That Warlord also gains the Berserker Charge ability.

Ulrick
(I wanted to make this guy somewhat of a mix between Valguard, Parmenio, Marcus, and the Venoc Warlord for a different sort of army.)



Human
Unique Hero
Warlord
Wild
Medium 5

Life 6
Move 5
Range 1
Attack 4
Defense 3

115 points

Wild Influence
At the start of the game, you may choose any unique Army Card you control. For this game the chosen card's personality is wild, regardless of what is listed on the card.

Wild Luck Enhancement
All Wild units you control may add one to any twenty sided die rolls.

Ulrick's Battle Cry
After taking a turn with Ulrick, you may roll 6 Einar Valkyrie dice. Move up to 4 Warrior figures you control up to 2 times X spaces. X equals the number of Einar symbols rolled. Any Warriors moved with Ulrick's Battle Cry must be within 6 clear sight spaces of Ulrick prior to their movement.

[or instead of UBC, go with Warrior Leadership- all Warriors you control move 1 additional space]

[ZBeeblebrox]

Originally Posted by Jexik

Okay. I'm pretty awful with photoshop and I'm not much of an artist, but I have lots of good ideas... I think.

Perhaps the most glaring omission to me so far in Heroscape is the lack of the Dreadguls and Ulrick. These are the bad-guy vikings that opposed the Tarn and fought alongside Valguard. They've been mentioned in the bios ever since RotV and wave 4, yet they still don't seem to be on the horizon, even with wave 8 looming. As far as the story goes, the recent alliance between Einar and Jandar makes these guys seem even less likely to show up in a future release.

If you never read Valguard's bio, here's the link to his Hasbro spot: Yep.

Dreadguls
(I based their strength and points on the Romans and Greeks. Despite the fact that the Tarn are Unique, I felt that making these guys common would help reflect their superior numbers.)

Einar

Human
Common Squad (4)
Warriors
Wild
Medium 5 (Could change depending on models)

Move 4
Range 1
Attack 3
Defense 2

50 points

Berserker Charge
After moving and before attacking, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 15 or higher, you may move this army card again.

Wild Warlord Bonding
Before taking a turn with Dreadguls, you may first take a turn with any Wild Warlord that you control. That Warlord also gains the Berserker Charge ability.

Ulrick
(I wanted to make this guy somewhat of a mix between Valguard, Parmenio, Marcus, and the Venoc Warlord for a different sort of army.)

Einar

Human
Unique Hero
Warlord
Wild
Medium 5

Life 5
Move 5
Range 1
Attack 2
Defense 4

130 points

Wild Influence
At the start of the game, you may choose any unique Army Card you control. For this game the chosen card's personality is wild, regardless of what is listed on the card.

Warrior Leadership
All Warriors you control may move one additional space. When rolling the twenty-sided die for any powers for any Warriors you control, you may add 1 to your roll.

Wild Attack Enhancement
All friendly Wild units adjacent to Ulrick roll one additional attack die.


My goal with these two cards is to make not only Valguard and the Tarn Viking Warriors more useful, but a whole slew of other units as well. Recall that most Kyrie (including Runa) are also Warriors. Warriors of Ashra and Marro Warriors are some others that spring to mind immediately.

The only Wild Warlords currently in the game are Valguard and Me-Burq-Sa; I see having Reckless charge-bonding with either one as loads of fun. Ulrick's Wild influence would allow you to make Ne-Gok-Sa or Mittens Wild as well, which would also rock- I don't think it'd necessarily be overpowering, but it would certainly give ranged units something to fear. I also like the idea of using a personality influencing card not just as a way to keep theme, but as a way to make one unit exceptionally useful in this army.

The only ability I could maybe see dropping from Ulrick is the Wild Attack Enhancement. If I did, I'd drop his points accordingly as well.

So, what do you guys think? Fun, exciting? Wildly overpowered? Ideas for what sculpts I should use? I recall seeing some very convincing ones on these same forums using Minions of Utgar. (I can probably handle repainting stuff just fine- I did play Warhammer in the past.)

I like Ulrich a lot, but this is not the first time I've seen Dreadguls. Check out these...

http://www.heroscapers.com/community...ead.php?t=8622

OR

http://www.heroscapers.com/community...=asc&start=195

Now on to that father of Valguard. I think he is a nice addition, but think he costs a liitle too much. His stats are comperable to Valguard, less than VWarlord and close to Decimus. i'd say keep him close to their points somewhere between 110 and 120.

[Jexik]

Ah, that first one is the one I had seen before. Jonathan's fit in perfectly with Valguard aesthetically, but they were a bit stronger than I imagined. I really like justjohn's, he even thought of the whole 'Wild Warlord Bonding' idea more than a year before I did!

One simple fix for Ulrick could be to keep his cost the same and give him 6 lives. I had originally planned to do that, but balked at the last minute. Here is a basic template for how I see Ulrick being used in a 500 point army:

Ulrick 130
Venoc Warlord/Valguard+Isamu 250
Me-Burq-Sa 300
And then some combination of Tarn Viking Warriors, Dreadguls, and Marro Warriors for the last 200

Edit: Keep in mind that part of why I think Ulrick's cost should be high is that he makes the Marro Warriors (who are already wild) an extremely dangerous squad. As written, they'd benefit not only from Ulrick's bonus to die rolls for their clone ability, but also to their movement and potentially their attack if they are adjacent to Ulrick. Making the Krav Maga Agents, Syvarris, or the upcoming Zetacron wild and thus more offensive is also a scary thought. I sort of like synergies that break theme though, which is why I've always been a huge fan of the Roman Legion.

Giving Warriors of Ashra and Raelin, Saylind, Runa, or Concan more movement also seems potentially fun. The Tarn Viking Warriors would also obviously receive a nice boost.

[ReqMan]

Nice ideas Jexik.

Since I just finished my viking additions, their enemies would be great customs to add to the draft. (Have a game day coming this Tuesday!)

I'm not sure about the Dreadguls Wild Warlord Bonding also giving the warlord the Berserker Charge ability. That seems a bit much to me.
It also doesnt sound right inside the Bonding ability. Bonding usually just means to take a free turn, not transpose special abilities from the common squad to the unique hero.
Venoc Warlord with Berserker Charge(+1) would be very dangerous. I'm not sure 50 points is right if you want to keep it.

Ulrick seems good too, although I would also get rid of the +1 to D20 rolls in the Leadership ability. Its very powerful, and Leadership abilities usually only translate to +1 Movement.

But keep the Wild Attack Enhancement for sure. This ties in perfectly with the Wild Influence.

And if you remove +1 to D20 ability, I would say to increase his Attack to 3 to make him useful in combat. Since Valguard's Attack of 2 is only that low because of his First Assault ability. Ulrick doesnt have that, so I think he'd need to have a better attack if you wanted him in combat (which you would have to to make use of his +1 Attack Aura).

Great stuff. Any ideas for figures?

[Jexik]

Originally Posted by ReqMan

Nice ideas Jexik.

Since I just finished my viking additions, their enemies would be great customs to add to the draft. (Have a game day coming this Tuesday!)

Thanks, I'll keep working at it, and maybe get around to learning how to make a nice pretty card and repaint some figures.

Originally Posted by ReqMan

I'm not sure about the Dreadguls Wild Warlord Bonding also giving the warlord the Berserker Charge ability. That seems a bit much to me.
It also doesnt sound right inside the Bonding ability. Bonding usually just means to take a free turn, not transpose special abilities from the common squad to the unique hero.
Venoc Warlord with Berserker Charge(+1) would be very dangerous. I'm not sure 50 points is right if you want to keep it.

I guess I mostly threw that in because I really like the idea of a Berserker Charging Valguard. Also, I left them at 3A/2D, which is the stats for the Sacred Band and the Romans as a base value. The berserker charging addition to the bonding is sort of their answer to Shield Wall, Disciplined Army Defense bonus, and Defy Death. They are a more offensive oriented squad, but having their own Berserker charge might be enough.

If you do end up trying them in a custom game this week, try it out this way and tell me if they're too good.

Originally Posted by ReqMan

Ulrick seems good too, although I would also get rid of the +1 to D20 rolls in the Leadership ability. It's very powerful, and Leadership abilities usually only translate to +1 Movement.

You might be right. I felt like I was almost giving him too many enhancements, which is why I made him more expensive than any existing official Warlords. The fact that it doesn't apply to Warlords but only Warriors is probably reason enough to drop it, just because it'd get confusing keeping track of all this when using the Wild Warlord Bonding charge thingy.

Originally Posted by ReqMan

But keep the Wild Attack Enhancement for sure. This ties in perfectly with the Wild Influence.

And if you remove +1 to D20 ability, I would say to increase his Attack to 3 to make him useful in combat. Since Valguard's Attack of 2 is only that low because of his First Assault ability. Ulrick doesnt have that, so I think he'd need to have a better attack if you wanted him in combat (which you would have to to make use of his +1 Attack Aura).

Good points. Although I sort of think of him as being more like Marcus than Valguard, giving him 3 offense wouldn't exactly make him all that frightening, yet still give a good excuse to move him to the front lines.

Originally Posted by ReqMan

Great stuff. Any ideas for figures?

The best candidates to me seem to be the ones that ZB linked. Both Minions of Utgar and the Tarn Viking Warriors seem like good candidates for repaints, not only because they look right, but because they're something that a lot of people probably have extras of anyway. If I do use the Minions, that's a good excuse to keep the charge bonding as-is, and the cost similar, but to make them into a 3 man squad instead.

Thorgrim and Finn might be moddable to look more threatening, but still old to make an acceptable Ulrick.

[SoulfulKillingMachine]

It bothers me that you have Wild Attack Enhancement and Wild Influence on the same card, potentially boosting any figure, but I can't think of any situation where Taelord wouldn't be better. (now there's something I never thought I'd say!) I say it's fine.

When you use Berserker charge for a common squad, do you move every figure, or just the first 4?

[Jexik]

Originally Posted by SoulfulKillingMachine

It bothers me that you have Wild Attack Enhancement and Wild Influence on the same card, potentially boosting any figure, but I can't think of any situation where Taelord wouldn't be better. (now there's something I never thought I'd say!) I say it's fine.

There are definitely some situations (Syvarris, the upcoming Zetacron), and others that I'm probably forgetting where just giving a ranged unit the Wild personality and some extra attack seems like a neat idea. But that would also mean that you'd forgo the opportunity to make a berserker charging Ne-Gok-Sa or Venoc Warlord.

In the end, he still has to be adjacent. I like the idea of the Wild Influence making the unit that you influence stronger, instead of Parmenio's situation where it just makes that squad better.

Originally Posted by SoulfulKillingMachine

When you use Berserker charge for a common squad, do you move every figure, or just the first 4?

Just the first 4. That's why I wrote it as 'this army card'. The Tarn Viking Warriors didn't have that problem because they are unique. I also originally wrote it to say 4 Dreadguls, but amended it so that it could also apply to the hero that they bond with.

Thanks for the continued input, I think after NHSD I'll get around to making and playtesting something.

[Jexik]

Even more glaring than the omission of the Dreadguls is the need to have awesome polar bears wearing platemail. I originally thought that panserbjørnes would make a cool 2 man squad or something, but after seeing Iorek Byrnison in action (in the book, I haven't seen The Golden Compass yet), I think he should be a hero.

Iorek Byrnison

Panserbjørne
Unique Hero
Prince
Rebellious
Large 7 (Could change depending on sculpt)

Life 5
Move 5
Range 1
Attack 5
Defense 3

150 points?

Sky Iron Armor
When rolling defense against any attack, Iorek Byrnison always adds one automatic shield to whatever is rolled.

Tireless Lope
After moving and instead of one attack, Iorek Byrnison may move 2 spaces.

Crush Like An Egg
After moving and instead of one attack, Iorek Byrnison may automatically destroy one adjacent small or medium squad figure.

Double Attack
When Iorek Byrnison attacks, he may attack one additional time.

(I took some of the wording from the the awesome TNT Nightcrawler by GreyOwl, and of course Sky Iron Armor is a modified version of Tough.)

What do you guys think?

[Jexik]

[Edit 11-9 for long overdue fixes, largely inspired by a wonderful PM from Rhydderch].

One game mechanic that I love and don't feel has been explored nearly enough is the Common Hero. Swog Riders might not be that popular nowadays, but they're one of my favorite units when it comes to design. I even like Dumutefs. But those are the only 2. Come on now. There should be at least as many Common Heroes as they are unique squads.

The Wolves of Badru are cool, but I think they might be a little fragile to really see play, and they could certainly use some more figures to bond with. Try this on for size.

Badru Alpha

Wolf
Common Hero
Darklord
Relentless
Large 5 (think similar size to a Deathstalker)

Life 1
Move 7
Range 1
Attack 3
Defense 5

35 Points

Leader of the Pack
All friendly Hunters adjacent to a Badru Alpha receive an additional attack and an additional defense die.

Improved Pounce Special Attack
Range 4. Attack 6
A Badru Alpha that moved but did not attack normally may use Pounce Special attack. To pounce, choose one non-adjacent figure* whose base is not higher or lower than 8 levels from the attacking Wolf. If the figure is destroyed, immediately place the attacking Wolf's leading end on the space(s) the figure occupied. If the figure is not destroyed, destroy the attacking Wolf.

*note the lack of a size restriction


The Knights need a special attack!

Paladin of Weston

Human
Common Hero
Champion
Valiant
Medium 5

Life 1
Move 5
Range 1
Attack 2
Defense 4

25 points

Eye for an Eye Special Attack
Range 1. Attack Special.
When using Eye for an Eye Special Attack, Paladin of Weston rolls as many attack dice as the Defense listed on the defending figure's Army Card, up to a maximum of 7 dice.

Faith is my Shield
When defending with a Paladin of Weston, add 1 defense die for each other friendly Valiant figure adjacent to the defending Paladin, up to a maximum of three dice, for the Faith is my Shield power.

I've often thought that the vikings could use a female archer type, to fill that MBS/like role.

Freyja the Viking Champion
Human
Unique Hero
Champion
Valiant
Medium 4

Life 3
Move 5
Range 7
Attack 3
Defense 2

45 Points

Range Aura 1
All friendly figures adjacent to Freyja with a range of 4 or more add 1 to their Range.

Warrior's Range Spirit 1
When Freyja is destroyed, place this figure on any unique Army Card with a range of 4 or more. Freyja's spirit adds 1 to the normal range number on that card.

Armoc Warlord (Lots of people have wanted this one, here's my take.)

Viper
Common Hero
Warlord
Relentless
Medium 5

Life 1
Move 7
Range 4
Attack 3
Defense 3

15 Points

Slither
Armoc Warlord does not have to stop his movement when entering water spaces.

Protector Enhancement
All adjacent Protectors gain 1 additional attack and defense die.


Bezerka (Why use Isamu in Orc armies ever again?!)

Orc
Common Hero
Champion
Wild
Medium 5

Life 1
Move 6
Range 1
Attack 4
Defense 2

10 Points

Berserker Charge
After moving and before attacking, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 15 or higher, you may move that same Bezerka again.

Disengage
A Bezerka never receives any leaving engagement attacks.

[Blazemane]

In my opinion, Paladin of Weston might be a tad bit overpowered.

Let's imagine him next to an airborne infantry piece. O.k... not too much attack (well, at this point it'd be better to use the base of three).

If he's next to the Deathstalkers... o.k., that's a lot of scarlet cubes.

Hmm... Deathwalker! 9 attack senor Soulborg! And there goes 140 points to the common hero.

I don't know, I could be wrong, but he seems a bit overpowered.

I do like the Badru Alpha.

Freyja- nice continuation of the Finn/Thorogrim concept. I love ranged people. I love them!

Bezerka seems like a nice little assassin running around... hurting people.

I do wonder about Paladin, but good job on all of these.

[Jexik]

Originally Posted by Blazemane

I do wonder about Paladin, but good job on all of these.

Thanks. My main thought with the Paladin was to give the Knights of Weston an answer to Deathreavers, Major Q9, Samurai, Gladiatrons and Warriors of Ashra. What I like about the Paladin is that while he's pretty good against those figures, he's rather sub par against what the Knights are normally good against- namely other squad figures and Uniques with low defense, like the Elven Wizards. He's still a melee figure with rather variable defense. I think that most figures should be costed according to how long they're going to last, more than how much damage they might deal. Otherwise, we end up with mistakes like Deathreavers or Runa.

It is slightly problematic that a Paladin would be so great against Brunak or Deathwalker 9000, but Sir Denrick already has that sort of ability, although he does little against the Large Soulborgs.

[rym]

Perhaps put a restriction on the amount of Attack Dice the Paladin of Weston rolls. Say up to 5 or 6, which is about as strong as all the other singular unique heroes that aren't of the large variety. That might stop the insane roll of 9 dice against DW9K.

And as far as problematic goes, thematically, I picture a paladin leading the charge while the knights rally around him and draw from his courage. Paladin should use his Special Attack against the largest, and toughest of the enemies foes, while the knights handle the rest. That way, the Paladin's one attack die against an Arrow grut doesn't seem out of whack - too much .


Just my thoughts. But I do like the ideas Jexik. Very cool indeed.