The Book of Master Splinter

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by Arkham

Adding another ability onto one of his powers is pushing it IMO, as it's already stuffed. Not saying it's not a neat idea though.

All things considered, it looks like it was a close game, 2 of the 3 remaining surviving figures were only 1 wound away, and Professor X by himself would have been torn apart. As for Splinter's affect on the game, he provided 3 extra turns, 3 wounds caused on defense, 2 wounds avoided, and added to a Cowabunga! roll. Not that bad, especially considering he likely underperformed on offense based on what his average should be doing, and his Father's Devotion went unused.

It didn't go unused, but the full switch part did. The Daring Duty part got plenty of use redirecting attacks from Phoenix and Beast (in fact, it prevented Beast from using Whirlwind Assault to make multiple attacks, which is pretty decent). Also, note that Phoenix got appalling luck with rolling for Psionic Wave - it should be a 50/50 chance of at least triggering the movement, and she rarely ever got it.

Honestly.... it's a tough cut, but I wouldn't mind cutting the full on switch or the D20 boost to make his fall have an actual impact on the Turtles.

Originally Posted by japes

I agree with everything Arkham said here. The fact that he didn't use one of his more annoying powers and he didn't cause a single wound on Attack (either through Normal or Breaking Balance) seems like just bad luck. How many times did he attack. Hard to believe he didn't get a auto wound in there with any of his attacks.

He only attacked once, as that's really how he plays here - he's likely only going to get one turn per round if he's supplementing Turtle Power! (and that's assuming you don't want that turn with another Turtle instead). The first turn was moving up, the second he charged in and failed to hurt Beast, and the third he was killed before he could take. Honestly, his offence isn't my concern as much as his ability to survive. Might be worth having a look over the report...

Originally Posted by Yodaking

One card just can't have everything a character can or could do. We stream line designs here and boil them down to the basics. We also bend on theme quite a bit in order to make the game fun and balanced for everyone involved. Otherwise Superman I would have had several more powers on his card and Man of Steel would have been something like 3 auto shields to keep any random street thug from ever hurting him with a pistol round.

Oh, yeah... that could never happen.

~Lazy Orang, keeping you guessing.

[Ronin]

Reading from my phone, but it looks like Phoenix and Beast teamed up and were both attacking Splinter for three turns in order to put him down? That sounds like pretty solid survivability to me.

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by Ronin

Reading from my phone, but it looks like Phoenix and Beast teamed up and were both attacking Splinter for three turns in order to put him down? That sounds like pretty solid survivability to me.

Hmmm... that's a decent point. It felt flaky, but that might have beem because he was under concentrated fire and I rolled a blank against one attack, which always kind of feels wrong when you're playing Splinter. He will suffer vs. Range and Specials, though, so you need to take that into account, and I maintain that he somehow didn't feel... impactful enough.
I'll try running him against a Foot Clan build, though, probably on Thursday.

[Ronin]

He might not have been particularly flashy, but the X-Men spent the equivalent of a full round trying to take him out, and he put out 3 wounds on his defense in the process. It's a pretty solid performance for a guy who wasn't taking a lot of turns. I don't think it's so thematically wrong for Splinter to have a significant-but-subtle influence on a match either. I'd give him another game or two before changing anything.

[Lazy Orang]

Army Test 2
Map: Sewer Labyrinth (Because I had to...) (No Glyphs)
Armies;
Master Splinter (230), Leonardo, Raphael, Donatello, Michelangelo (930 points)
vs.
Shredder, Kirigi, Ubu, Foot Clan Ninja, 3x Hand Ninja (940 points)

Spoiler Alert!

Overview of Master Splinter’s performance:
Damage inflicted through normal attacks: 3 on Shredder
Order Markers retrieved through Wisdom of the Rat: Order Marker 3 burned through Turtle Power! in Round 1 and then placed on Master Splinter. Order Marker 2 burned through Turtle Power! in Round 2 and then placed on Master Splinter.
D20 rolls swung through Wisdom of the Rat: None
Times switched with one of his sons through Father’s Devotion: None
Wounds blocked through Breaking Balance: 1 from a Foot Ninja
Damage inflicted through Breaking Balance when defending with Splinter: 1 Foot Ninja eliminated
Damage inflicted through Breaking Balance when attacking with Splinter: None

Spoiler Alert!

Round One

The Turtles claim the initiative, and Donatello advances, but fails to move his sensei with the Anti-Gravity Gauntlet.
Shredder and three Hand Ninja advance.
Leonardo burns the X on Mikey, who leaps forwards. He then activates the 3 on Raph, who runs forwards, before Master Splinter claims Order Marker 3 himself. Leo advances.
Two Hand Ninja run forwards, throwing shurikens at Raph and Leo, though both are blocked. Another Hand Ninja advances from reserve, and the Foot Ninja advance.
Master Splinter advances.
Three Hand Ninja strike Raph, but he blocks each blow. Shredder advances.

Round Two

The Foot Clan claims the initiative, and three Hand Ninja strike Raphael, inflicting two wounds. Ubu advances and drops a Lazarus Pit behind the ninjas’ lines.
Leo activates the X on Michelangelo, who charges Shredder and a Hand Ninja. He knocks out a Hand Ninja before Cowabungaing, leaping towards and knocking out another Hand Ninja. Leo activates the 2 on Raphael, who leaps towards another Hand Ninja and Shredder, knocking out the Ninja and striking Shredder, inflicting two wounds before being killed himself. Splinter reclaims the 2. Leonardo runs forwards but does not charge Shredder, not wishing to get himself killed when it’s his job to lead the Turtles.
The Foot Ninja strike, inflicting two wounds on Leo and one on Mikey. Three Hand Ninja advance.
Splinter strikes a Foot Ninja, but fails to harm him.
The Foot strike, three attacking Leo, inflicting a wound, while one strikes Splinter, inflicting a wound and getting knocked out for his trouble.
Leo knocks out a Foot Ninja.

Round Three

The Foot claim the initiative, and a Foot Clan Ninja appears from Out of the Shadows. All three strike Leo, inflicting two wounds.
Splinter charges Shredder and a Foot Ninja, striking Shredder with a devastating, 5 skull blow, causing him to receive two wounds as he inflicts one on the rat.
The Foot Clan strike, cutting down Leonardo and eliminating the Turtles’ first turn. Three Hand Ninja advance and throw shurikens at Splinter.
The Foot strike Michelangelo - all their blows were blocked, and one was taken down. The Hand throw shurikens at Splinter, inflicting two wounds and briniging him one wound off death.
Michelangelo leaps at Shredder, and strikes him for a wound while receiving one himself.

Round Four
The Foot claim the initiative, and two more Foot appear. All four strike Michelangelo, who takes a wound from one strike, blocks another and counters the other two, knocking out two Foot.
Splinter strikes Shredder, knocking him out.
The last two Foot strike Mikey, inflicting a wound on him. The Hand continue to throw shurikens at Splinter, but he blocks them.
Mikey knocks out a Foot Ninja.
The last Foot retreats while the Hand continue to throw shurikens, killing Splinter.
Mikey charges a Hand Ninja, knocking him out.

Round Five

The Turtles claim the initiative, and Mikey charges a Hand Ninja, taking him down.
Kirigi advances and the Hand throw shurikens at Mikey, killing him.
Donatello Staff Vaults forwards, knocking out a Hand Ninja.
Kirigi runs forwards and spears Don into the water, before striking him for a wound. Two Hand Ninja also strike Don, inflicting a wound.
Don knocks out a Hand Ninja.
Kirigi strikes Don for a wound. The last two Hand Ninja strike Don.

Round Six

Don claims the initiative, and knocks out a Hand Ninja.
Kirigi decapitates Don.

Foot Clan Victorious, Kirigi unwounded, Ubu unwounded, 1 Hand Ninja, 1 Foot Clan Ninja.

Overview: I’ll be honest, that... wasn’t fun. Leo felt like he died far too quickly due to the boosts and penalties of Antagonising Presence, the fact that the ninja can just slip out of engagement and strike when moving from any angle made Splinter’s protection meaningless, the ability to switch when a Turtle takes wounds rather than before they’re attacked just doesn’t seem that useful, mobilising Splinter was a pain... I just really didn’t have fun there. Here are a few changes I’d like to request:
1) Up Splinter’s Move to 6. Honestly, I think all these guys should have had a Move of 6, but Splinter’s moving up on his own and doesn’t even have the option to leap or Staff Vault. I know he’s old, but he’s still nimble, and I think this would help with mobilising him so that he’s fun to use, and 2:
2) Completely rework Father’s Devotion. The second part of it just isn’t useful, and the first part is painfully countered by the Foot - they can just dance around it and slaughter Leo at their leisure. I’d suggest changing it to something like this:

Whenever an opponent’s figure targets a Ninja Turtle you control within 3 spaces of Master Splinter for an attack, if they roll 3 or more skulls, you must/may, if possible, switch Master Splinter with the defending Turtle. Master Splinter is the new target of the attack. Switched figures will not take leaving engagement attacks. If Master Splinter is destroyed, all Ninja Turtles you control add one to their attack and subtract one from their defence.

This makes it more generally useful, especially against the Foot and Shredder, who right now can dance around Splinter’s protection - with this, he actually becomes a good counter to them for a Turtle build, especially since his defence isn’t reduced. The fact that it triggers on high-skull attacks is meant to represent that he doesn’t coddle his students, but will protect them, if necessary, and should also synergise nicely with Breaking Balance. Plus, since this trims the protection part of Father’s Devotion to one effect, it also opens up the possibility for injecting the pseudo-Turtle Ragnarok when Splinter dies, which I think is an incredibly evocative effect. He definitely needs some change, because right now... he’s not feeling there.

[quozl]

This confuses me:

Splinter charges Shredder and a Foot Ninja, striking Shredder with a devastating, 5 skull blow, causing him to receive two wounds as he inflicts one on the rat.

How could this only inflict two wounds? Shredder has 4 defense. Did he roll all 4 shields and then receive 1 wound from the attack + 1 wound for being "off balance" for a total of 2 wounds? In order to do that plus give Splinter 1 wound, he would also need height to be rolling 5 dice for defense.

Or am I misunderstanding Breaking Balance?

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by quozl

This confuses me:

How could this only inflict two wounds? Shredder has 4 defense. Did he roll all 4 shields and then receive 1 wound from the attack + 1 wound for being "off balance" for a total of 2 wounds? In order to do that plus give Splinter 1 wound, he would also need height to be rolling 5 dice for defense.

Or am I misunderstanding Breaking Balance?

No, he wasn't hurt by Breaking Balance. He was on height, but Splinter rolled 5 skulls, Shredder rolled three shields, taking two wounds normally, one blank, and one skull to inflict a wound with RCC.

[quozl]

AH, I forgot you need to roll more skulls than shields. I thought it was not the same number of skulls and shields.

I like the proposed changes BTW.

[Yodaking]

I'm glad you played him vs. the Foot, as it does point out a big flaw to the passed version of Father's Devotion. I agree it makes it much useful and should be changed. I'm just not sure I agree with the new version either. Basically if goes from the Foot being the perfect counter to Splinter to Splinter completely owning the Foot as every time they score a 3 skull hit (which should be a good thing), Splinter jumps in and auto kills them via Breaking Balance. I don't think the Foot player should be hoping not to roll 3+ skulls anytime they are in the general vicinity of Splinter. They already don't want to attack Splinter directly, not letting them attack the Turtles as well makes them not worth much.

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by Yodaking

I'm glad you played him vs. the Foot, as it does point out a big flaw to the passed version of Father's Devotion. I agree it makes it much useful and should be changed. I'm just not sure I agree with the new version either. Basically if goes from the Foot being the perfect counter to Splinter to Splinter completely owning the Foot as every time they score a 3 skull hit (which should be a good thing), Splinter jumps in and auto kills them via Breaking Balance. I don't think the Foot player should be hoping not to roll 3+ skulls anytime they are in the general vicinity of Splinter. They already don't want to attack Splinter directly, not letting them attack the Turtles as well makes them not worth much.

What if I make it a once per turn effect? At least then the Foot can rely on their swarminess to hit more times than Splinter can jump in the way.

[Lazy Orang]

Okay, if no one objects, I'd like to try out this version vs the Foot next week:

MASTER SPLINTER

RODENT
UNIQUE HERO
SENSEI
WISE
MEDIUM 4

4 LIFE
MOVE 6
RANGE 1
ATTACK 4
DEFENCE 6

WISDOM OF THE RAT

Once per round, when an Order Marker is removed from any Ninja Army Card you control, you may immediately place that Order Marker on this army card or any Ninja Army Card you control. When you roll the 20-sided die for a Ninja you control, you may add or subtract 1 from the roll.

FATHER'S DEVOTION

Once per turn, whenever an opponent’s figure targets a Ninja Turtle you control within 3 spaces of Master Splinter for an attack, if they roll 3 or more skulls, you may, if possible, switch Master Splinter with the defending Turtle. Master Splinter is the new target of the attack. Switched figures will not take leaving engagement attacks. If Master Splinter is destroyed, all Ninja Turtles you control add one to their attack and subtract one from their defence.

BREAKING BALANCE

When an adjacent opponent's figure rolls attack dice for a normal attack against Master Splinter, or rolls defense dice against an attack from Master Splinter, if they roll more skulls than shields, you may add one automatic shield to Splinter's roll and if Master Splinter is not destroyed, that figure receives a wound.

********************

The change in Life and Defence is because I've been thinking, and I reckon really playing up his reflexes at the expense of his constitution is more fitting for the character.

[Yodaking]

I don't want you to be eternally disappointed with how Splinter ends up, we already lost Tornado for a few years over how he feels about Judge Dredd & Judge Death and as a result I have tried to not get to overly involved with other's passion projects as a result, but I'm not really excited about this latest direction you have gone in.

As others have repeatedly said, it seems as though you are stuffing multiple cards worth of powers and themes all into one card and that isn't working for me. By my count he has 8 distinct major and minor powers/effects going on in the one card. With 700+ C3G cards now created I'm certain you can scour the books and find other cards that appear to have 8+ different effects on one card, the specific number isn't all that relevant here it is now messy and disjointed this design presents those 8 different powers/themes.

I've also previously voiced a lack of enthusiasm for 6 def., that doesn't just make him better in melee fights but also better vs. ranged and AoE attacks. The news isn't all bad as the 6 move makes a lot of sense to me, rats are pretty quick so a humanoid rat ninja certainly qualifies as above average speed.

I can't in good faith vote yea on the above card, if I'm the only one who feels that way I'll just abstain and stay out of it, however based on previous comments I suspect you may have trouble getting the other 4 heroes to vote yea. I wouldn't give up on the design in frustration though, just maybe take a step back and ask yourself what is your priorities for the design then come back at it with a more focused approach.