Giantslayer's Point Valuation System

[Cavalier]

Originally Posted by FATSNACK

Giantslayer, I have read this thread and look over your statistics. You really have really put alot of thought into this. If possible would you be willing to send me the spreadsheet that I could use. This looks to be a great tool.

Um, the link to it is in the first post...

[FATSNACK]

Oh, I see what is was doing incorrectly. Thank you Cavalier. Have you used this tool? And how has it worked for you?

[IAmBatman]

Very useful tool! I think it's better as an estimator than a final decider, but it seems very useful for giving you a starting point for playtesting. To experiment, I ran the C3G Batman (200 points) and C3G Superman (400 points) into the tester and came up with 180 points for Batman and 405 points for Superman. Considering this is calibrated to Heroscape with no squads, it's not surprising that Batman looks a tad overcosted and Superman looks a tad undercosted. I think starting with that estimate and playtesting from there would've led to the same conclusions for each.

I'm definitely going to use this the next time I start a design, before I go into playtesting. Thanks!

[michaeltaylor]

My calculations don't quite match yours. Am I doing something wrong?

Iron Man [200]: L4 (3), M6 (10), R6 (35), A4 (15), D6 (50), [140], Double Attack (30), Flying (30).

Silver Surfer [315]: L6 M6 R4 A4 D7 (200), Cosmic Force Blast (50), Hyper Speed 5 (50), Stealth Flying (15).

Spider-Man [210]: L5 M6 R1 A4 D4 (90), Spidey-Sense 11 (75), Swing Line 4 (30), Web Special Attack (15).

Thanos [350]: L6 M6 R6 A6 D7 (245), Rejected by Death (75), Flying (30).

Venom [190]: L5 M6 R1 A6 D4 (125): Spider-Sense 14 (30), Swing Line 4 (30), Web Special Attack (5).

[CJofCourse]

Originally Posted by michaeltaylor

My calculations don't quite match yours. Am I doing something wrong?

Iron Man [200]: L4 (3), M6 (10), R6 (35), A4 (15), D6 (50), [140], Double Attack (30), Flying (30).

Silver Surfer [315]: L6 M6 R4 A4 D7 (200), Cosmic Force Blast (50), Hyper Speed 5 (50), Stealth Flying (15).

Spider-Man [210]: L5 M6 R1 A4 D4 (90), Spidey-Sense 11 (75), Swing Line 4 (30), Web Special Attack (15).

Thanos [350]: L6 M6 R6 A6 D7 (245), Rejected by Death (75), Flying (30).

Venom [190]: L5 M6 R1 A6 D4 (125): Spider-Sense 14 (30), Swing Line 4 (30), Web Special Attack (5).

Giantslayer hasn't been around for nearly two years now, of course he could be lurking around here somewhere, but this PDF is basically my HeroScape costing bible, I'll take a closer look at this later when I have some more free time.

[CJofCourse]

@michaeltaylor Well nevermind, I’ll do it now, I can’t get it off my mind.
I'll try to answer as best I can.

Iron Man = “so those two attacks at 4 are approximately equal to one attack at 6. That places Double Attack at about equivalent to increasing Iron Man’s attack to 6, which would cost 35 points. Power Level 3 clocks in at 30 points.” It is likely that he added on 35 instead of 30 and that is where this inconsistency lies.

Silver Surfer = In your post you have Hyper Speed 5 valued at 50 instead of 15. But this changes nothing, I’m coming up with a value of 305. Giantslayer must have had other unmentioned reasons for costing Surfer at 320.

Spiderman = When Giantslayer is talking about Spiderman in his case study, he seems to allot more points to things, but then round them down to a power level, it is possible that he is assigning the power levels to other numbers, for example, he says that Web Attack is worth 20 points, so he assigns it a 2 (15) He could be adding on the extra 5 in his overall cost, or subtracting for other powers.

Thanos = like Giantslayer says, powers may have different values on different characters, flying may be more beneficial to some characters more than others, so for Thanos this may have bumped up flying an extra 5 points.

Venom = “It would take a defense of 6 to get him that much average damage reduction. Upgrading to 6 defense would take 35 points. Level 3 power for 30 is about right.” Another case of this.

Of course, Giantslayer may have made some mistakes as are bound to happen with theoretical maths based around toys and plastic cubes.

[Drewman-chu]

I have been using Giant-slayer's system for awhile now and find it very useful and pretty accurate. After you get the base pt total you can always adjust up or down 5-15 pts based playtests. If you look on the first page of his spread sheet you can see all the point totals and comparisons. I think you may have forgot the 5 pts for superstrength for Thanos.

[CJofCourse]

Originally Posted by Drewman-chu

I have been using Giant-slayer's system for awhile now and find it very useful and pretty accurate. After you get the base pt total you can always adjust up or down 5-15 pts based playtests. If you look on the first page of his spread sheet you can see all the point totals and comparisons. I think you may have forgot the 5 pts for superstrength for Thanos.

Yeah, never wanna forget about those symbols. And don't worry @michaeltaylor , this system is still the best one out there, it is very accurate.

[michaeltaylor]

Thanks! I'm finding it very accurate as well. There is some subjectivity but it's a really good framework. I'm currently recosting all the official cards with Sheildcrusher's template!

[Kyuuketsuke]

Does anyone have an adjustment for squads, even super-powered ones? To me, it seems like just adding something like "bonds-with-other-squad-members" as an ability would just mash the quantity of them together to make something very high, but I feel like I'm missing something.

[artemiscorso]

Something to consider is the way that some powers add exponential value to each other. For example double attack is much more valuable to someone with a move/range of 6 and flying than it would be to someone with a move of 5 range of 1. It allows you board control and flexibility of strategy much more than a double attack of 4 range 1 would. Also defense and offense kind of build on each other. For much of the game Spider-Man's defense can be largely ignored because he has a single attack of 4. Captain America and Iron Man with multiple attacks of 4 are a more pressing concern. In effect their offense makes their defense more valuable. Think of it this way; each turn Spider-Man survives you get an extra turn of 1 attack of 4. Each turn Captain America survives you get an extra turn of 1 attack of 6, or possibly 3 attacks of 4. Giving someone who has an attack of 2 an extra defense die each turn is not worth the same as giving someone who has an attack of 5 an extra defense die each turn.