HeroScape is coming back!

[Tornado]

Certainly is easier to release someone else's work than to create your own.
Not very rewarding though and goes nowhere to prove they can keep this going.
Really curious to see what those scenarios look like though.

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by Toa Matoro

Seems somewhat cynical to think no one at a game studio is up for designing a peice for a game. Seems to me like it just makes more sense to use what a bunch of classic heroscapers designed instead of throwing out good work

There's been a lot of smoke that Renegade was attempting to do fully new designs for this, but the playtesters gave the feedback that the designs were not really up to par at all, this feedback was ignored, a slew of playtesters were let go from their position, yotta yotta backroom dealings, and then Renegade puts out AoA designs basically unchanged.

[chas]

I just saw a youtube video by a guy who was a fired playtester! He tried to be postive about the game's return, but he was angry at Renegade for sure.

[1moreheroscaper]

Very interesting if the information about creating new units is true. To try to be fair, it is hard to understand how to create balanced units that add to the game publish worthy quality (in either classic or a new innovation) if creative team the team doesn't already have a lot of practice at making HS beyond 1-2 years.

Perhaps we will mainly see a continued price point repackaging of the already designed Haslab offering with some other works that were in progress. ADD to the product list some terrain packs and re-releases of fan-desired classic units--maybe some new sculpts. Then keep that in store options for a couple of years.

[Myriadite]

Originally Posted by 1moreheroscaper

To try to be fair, it is hard to understand how to create balanced units that add to the game publish worthy quality (in either classic or a new innovation) if creative team the team doesn't already have a lot of practice at making HS beyond 1-2 years.

Yeah, with so many preexisting units, creating something new without breaking something or making something obsolete is quite a challenge - just look at the process for SoV. I am amazed at the design integrity maintained over many years of classic Scape as well as VC.

Perhaps we will mainly see a continued price point repackaging of the already designed Haslab offering with some other works that were in progress. ADD to the product list some terrain packs and re-releases of fan-desired classic units--maybe some new sculpts. Then keep that in store options for a couple of years.

That would not upset me at all.

[Nukatha]

Originally Posted by chas

I just saw a youtube video by a guy who was a fired playtester! He tried to be postive about the game's return, but he was angry at Renegade for sure.

Ryguy? Amusingly, his most recent video is him getting a Renegade affiliate link. Is he on 'Scapers?


From the outside looking in, my headcanon is something like:
Somehow CVN gets the development of a new HS line greenlit. A few C3V folks from here join the development team which is dubbed the War Council.
After a year or so, and artists making sculpts, the Haslab launches, odd given thet the platform is mostly known for Transformers or He-Man products, rather than tabletop.

Haslab fails to reach funding goal due to lack of any marketing push, lack of lower-cost tiers like HeroQuest, and unwillingness of Hasbro to use Kickstarter or Gamefound for more visibility to the general wargaming/tabletop crowd, (who might have bought in just for the terrain).

Renegade gets the license. Initially intends to develop their own product, with perhaps just a few units from the Haslab.
They hire a few people who haven't played much Heroscape to design new units, as well as some of the War Council to playtest.
War Council is disappointed by the new designs, the most outspoken tell Renegade this. Initially a few are fired, but eventually they do side with reason and drop most (or all) of the new ideas and instead work on a way to produce the existing AoA designs.
The marketing/product team splits AoA into a few sets in a reasonably coherent way, opting to begin primarily with the Pirate units, and including a few others for variety (gotta have a Huge unit after all).
Hearing the desire for painted minis, they offer that option at a premium price, and open preorders ~half a year out to gauge interest and help plan future production runs.


So far, the only 'bad' step in this timeline is the early rejection of playtester feedback, but otherwise seems like an overall reasonable learning experience for Renegade that could have turned out far worse if they held onto hubris. I retain my cautious optimism.

[chas]

Renegade: Hire the War Council for the design work. It will be less hassle for everyone, and much more profit for you!

[kolakoski]

Well met!

It never left.

I cannot speak to how important Renegade's success is to any given 'Scaper. I can only speak for myself, and hope that my perspective is helpful.

I have been on this site since 2008. I have been fortunate enough to have a regular group of guys to play with - The New York City Gang Of Four. I enjoy designing units. C3V/SoV units are "official" at our table. One of my designs, Kha, was inducted into the SoV.

I am a Martial Artist (4th degree Black Belt in Karate), a Singer (Classical, Church, Musical Theater, Caberet, And Jazz), and have read tons of Historical Fiction, Fantasy, and Science Fiction novels - all of which inform my creative imagination. To me, designing a unit for Heroscape is an art very much like Jazz. The soloist creates within a cooperative context. Improvisation and pushing the creative envelope are encouraged, but the soloist is always listening and his version of the original melody evolves through the contributions of the other players, as well as his own imagination. Kha would not be who he is without the comments and contributions of a plethora of members of this Community. I believe I have a talent for this, and a good general design philosophy.

So, while it is interesting to speculate about Renegade 'Scape, their reasons for doing anything are different than mine. I am content with and grateful for the existence of the SoV. They're my arrangers. They help me with my charts. Of course, the Gang is my Jazz quartet. Our individual Hostings are like taking solos. We are affected by what the previous Hostings were like. We often repeat/revise scenarios according to our individual tastes.

So, with respect to Renegade and C3V/SoV (from Now Voyager):

Why ask for the Moon when we have the Stars?

[GaryLASQ]

Originally Posted by Just_a_Bill

Come on, man. Do you really look at old Raelin's wings and think they're organic? But even if you do, the point here is that the new ones are radically different and there doesn't seem to be any attempt to address it. As if nobody noticed. Hey, maybe there should be a new DW9K with a human head that nobody mentions. Innovation!

C3V and SoV had to make sculpt compromises (for obvious reasons), but brand-new official Scape shouldn't have to do that.

I agree. The wings are a radical change.



And there's more going on here than just the wings. This might be a bit too on the nose, but...

Evil Raelin! Hear Her ROARR!



Regardless, I still think it's a great looking sculpt of Raelin riding her Big bat cat.

There appears to be ample room for a passenger behind her. It's tempting to house rule the Carry SP...

This sculpt creates an interesting hit zone paradox. Errata on the bat cat wings, or not?



I've not yet attempted miniature painting. On a difficulty scale of 1 to 10, where does this rank?

[Master Roshi]

Yeah I would trust the designs of the war council and other experienced customs designers over someone internal to Renegade, so hopefully Renegade chooses to rely on the community going forward.
If they ignore the experienced designers and put out mediocre content once AOA is done, then they putting out the AOA designs in their original form would only have been delaying the problem.
I think Avalon Hill had the right creative team, it's a shame that they don't have the same influence now that they did at that time

[Shiftrex]

Welp. It isn't about trust at this point lol.

Renegade owns the IP. So they get to decide what Heroscape is.

[kolakoski]

Well met!

Originally Posted by Shiftrex

Renegade owns the IP. So they get to decide what Heroscape is.

Only in the minds of deluded Capitalists. We decide, individually and as a Community of those who care, what Heroscape is. If Renegade expands the Community, all well and good. But we are the ultimate arbiters of 'Scape's fate. Thus far, thanks to C3V/SoV and others, I believe we've done a pretty good job.

P.S.: What happens when the new serfs feeding on slop get a load of what we're eating?