Lava Love - does it pay to play with fire?

[fomox]

"Ah, but how will you capture us? We know the secrets of the Fire Swamp. We can live there quite happily for some time. So, whenever you feel like dying, feel free to visit."

--

I tend to be a gambling man, and probably don't fear the lava as much as I should. While I don't jump in the molten lava very often, I often risk the lava field spaces if I can see even a small strategic advantage in doing so. Does anyone have some rules of thumb about what it takes for you to be willing to leave a figure on lava field?

I'll start the thread with some statistics for those of us who like to know the odds before we decide to ignore them.

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Lava field
Most figures on lava field at the end of a round has a 50% chance of taking a wound. But there are exceptions:

Acolarh-protected Elves with only 1 life left:
Probability of survival: 61.2%
[.5 + (.5*.2284)]

Microcorp Agents:
Probability of survival: 65%
[.5 + (.5*.30)]
(67.5% with the glyph of Lodin)

Parmenio-protected Sacred Band:
Probability of survival: 65%
[.5 + (.5*.30)]
(67.5% with the glyph of Lodin)

Heroes you might not mind leaving on the lava field now and then:
Hulk or Krug
Thorgrim, Finn, or Eldgrim
Alastair MacDirk (or other MacDirk human champions)
Thanos


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Molten Lava

Okay, this is usually insane to try, with only a 5% chance of survival. And most of the figures listed above don't get any bonuses here, since their powers are all based on taking wounds, whereas the molten lava simply destroys the figure.

Glyph of Lodin:
Probability of survival: 10%

Viking Champions:
Still only a 5% chance of survival, but you might need the spirit on another card. I think it would be better to force your opponent to kill them, though.

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And of course there's Brunak and the Obsidian Guards, who have no problems with either type of terrain.

Additions or corrections welcome, as always.

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edited later to add:
I had initially said that Su-Bak-Na-boosted Marro would have a 10% chance, but Snotwalker8000 pointed out that Hive Supremecy only affects rolls on the Marro or Wulsinu army cards. This went to Guru and the rules committee and they made a new FAQ confirming Snotwalker8000's interpretation. Thanks!

[Jexik]

Interesting list of numbers. In general, I find that I'll often leave Heroes on lava fields, especially if the lava field is on high ground. Sure, you might have a 50% chance of taking one wound if you stay there, but you'll probably take a lot more wounds if you surrender height advantage to nearby squads.

I also really like putting Arrow Gruts and Swogs on lava fields, because they're pretty cheap, but also because they can later disengage and possibly leave their enemies by disengaging and let them burn. Gladiatrons are a blast too.

[Matthias Maccabeus]

This wouldn't have anything to do with our WoA game would it fomo6?

I don't mind putting Raelin on the lava field. It makes opponents think twice before engaging her. 5 life will last a while on the lava.

If I can tie up a more expensive figure on the lava, I'll sacrifice a cheaper unit. I did this to a few of TOG's minions with my knights in the KC tournament.

I'm a sucker for a good lava map. I love the different strategic aspects of it. Plus for some reason I kind of enjoy playing Brunak.

[CheddarLimbo]

Units with Life Drain have less to fear, or of you're fielding an Army with a healer like Kelda, or Sonlen, you might be willing to risk a few wounds if it meant hurting your opponent or holding a valuable glyph.

[DeadEye]

Ya fomo6 I do remeber a certain Warriors of Ashra game that had alot of Lava in it

I also enjoy a good lava map, adds a whole new aspect to the game other than just terrain height, but that the terrain can KILL you! Also Brunak is fun to bring out sometimes.

DeadEye

[fomox]

Originally Posted by Matthias Maccabeus

This wouldn't have anything to do with our WoA game would it fomo6?

It had everything to do with that game. It just took me until now to make the thread...

Raelin is a nice idea. In our game, for example, you coaxed 2 or 3 of my WoA out on the lava field each round. I either had to leave Raelin there (where she'd last on average 9 or ten rounds, more than enough for the game to be decided) or risk my girls on the lava losing one or two each round from lava damage.

(I'd have used Charos, but not with special-attack-Brunak sitting there. How on earth did I pull that game out?)

Originally Posted by Matthias Maccabeus

If I can tie up a more expensive figure on the lava, I'll sacrifice a cheaper unit. I did this to a few of TOG's minions with my knights in the KC tournament.

This is another nice idea. Even if the figure is likely to kill your unit, you can at least keep them from moving off.

[fomox]

Originally Posted by Jexik

Interesting list of numbers. In general, I find that I'll often leave Heroes on lava fields, especially if the lava field is on high ground. Sure, you might have a 50% chance of taking one wound if you stay there, but you'll probably take a lot more wounds if you surrender height advantage to nearby squads.

I also really like putting Arrow Gruts and Swogs on lava fields, because they're pretty cheap, but also because they can later disengage and possibly leave their enemies by disengaging and let them burn. Gladiatrons are a blast too.

I'm all for heroes on height. Figures with disengage is a good idea. And Gladiatrons would be sweet on or right next to lava field.

Originally Posted by CheddarLimbo

Units with Life Drain have less to fear, or of you're fielding an Army with a healer like Kelda, or Sonlen, you might be willing to risk a few wounds if it meant hurting your opponent or holding a valuable glyph.

Nice call. (Darn vampires.)

[LongHeroscaper]

I don't mind leaving a hero on Lava field either. Expensive figure, either squad or hero, is of course different.
I agree that Gladiatron can be very effective on a lava map. I do not think putting Raelin on Lava field and let her risk 1 wound each turn is a good idea. She can take wounds from range attack as well. If I see my opponent leaving Raelin on Lava field, I would be very happy. At least I do not have to shoot that much to kill her off.

[Snotwalker 8000]

Originally Posted by fomo6

Molten Lava

Okay, this is usually insane to try, with only a 5% chance of survival. And most of the figures listed above don't get any bonuses here, since their powers are all based on taking wounds, whereas the molten lava simply destroys the figure.

Su-Bak-Na-boosted Marro:
Probability of survival: 10%
(15% if you have the Glyph of Lodin, too.)

Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I'm pretty sure that SBN does NOT add a D20 bonus to a marro figure rolling for molten lava damage.

When you roll for molten lava damage, you are rolling individually for a figure... Hive Supremacy only applies when you are rolling for a Marro or Wulsinu army card... hence an ability on that card. This doesn't apply to external D20 rolls not listed on that Marro/Wulsinu card.

SW8K

[1Mmirg]

I've always played it that way as well. Is there anything more official on this?

I read it as saying rolling for an ability on a card, since, to me, other rolls would be rolling for a unit (or figure, as you say), not the card itself. It is, though, not as clear as I remember (rereading it right now).

(I just doublechecked the FAQ and didn't see anything. Anyone no of anything more official on this? I suppose some could argue that Ne-Gok-Sa is the full card and therefore gets the Su-Bak-Na bonus--I've never allowed that before, but it could be argued...)

[Elf_Archer]

What about the glyph of Dagmar, the most hopelessly overpowered glyph in the game.

45% chance to survive on lava
45% chance to mindshackle
60% chance to mindshackle with the right conditions

[1Mmirg]

Dagmar only effect Initiative rolls. (But it is powerful for what it does!)