Embrace the Reality

[Finrod]

Expanded from something I said in Truth's blog comments...

I am amazed at how some people immediately assume they know everything there is to know about new units from the first read of their card. Are you really that awesome at Heroscape?

Seriously, speculation is fun. Debating whether someone's defense is high enough is fun. Even wondering whether someone costs too much can be fun.

But to immediately ASSUME that a new hero or squad is broken/worthless/overcosted/stupid/sucky from one read?

Isn't that... arrogant?

I mean, these new cards weren't written yesterday, you know. They're not some customs that Sloppy McPaintsalot threw together in his basement last night. These are units that were designed months or even years ago by the designers of the game itself and then playtested rigorously for weeks and months to make sure they work well with all existing Heroscape units, all existing Heroscape terrain, all existing Heroscape rules... and UPCOMING Heroscape units, terrain and rules.

To assume that we know better than they do... when they spent all that time on it... and we've read a picture of a card on the internet... that's hubris, people.

When I pointed out something similar on the front page blog, I was called a fanboy. Name-calling isn't going to affect the reality.

I don't know if these units are all perfectly balanced or not. One or more of them may very well be broken/worthless/whatever. BUT... at this point... I'm much more ready to trust those who have already spent months examining them over someone who just read a card for the first time.

[HSisforcoolkids]

I totally agree Finrod. We tend to jump to conclusions with these things. I think it is especially important to remember, as you said, that the figures we see now can be strengthened, weakened, or in some other way interacted with by future figures.

[Grungebob]

Take it for what it is Finrod.... Opinion..... Theory.... It is just the natural way of things. I am not that put off by it. Folks think Groks are too expensive or that Jungle won't have an affect on gameplay, are perfectly allowed to vocalize those reservations. The designers of the figures are human and not above mistakes. The testing process, no matter how thorough, can never match the broad and unchained uses/observations of the fan base. The more the fans vocalize their preferences, the more the designers can accomodate them.

[Jim]

I think what bothers me the most about those kinds of posts are when people say "they are overcosted" or "They are stupid" instead of saying "I think they are overcosted" and "I think they are stupid." It's a subtle difference, but an important one. And while that may be what most people meant when they write it, it wasn't what they wrote.

Jim

[Finrod]

Originally Posted by Grungebob

The designers of the figures are human and not above mistakes. The testing process, no matter how thorough, can never match the broad and unchained uses/observations of the fan base. The more the fans vocalize their preferences, the more the designers can accomodate them.

I agree.

I'm just put off by those who are so immediately SURE about things on a first look.

[playa1]

That's a good point GB, but all I hear Finrod saying is that we (the masses of fans) should have a more open mind.

I seem to recall a lof of criticism of the 4th mass when their stats were announced.
I believe I expressed serious disappointment in the cost of Heavy Gruts which I have since determined to be some of the best melee units in the game (after much play).

I also think that posters (that is, people who post) often make outrageous claims about the functionality of new units really to get attention and have an "I said it first ..." or "I told you so" attitude. This is certainly not intended for ANY individual (other than possibly myself at times). I have not even followed current new unit speculation very closely and don't mean to disrespect ANYONE. But, I think Finrod's frustration is justified, and because of it, I will try to have a more open mind when posting about new units.

[Shades fan]

I hear a lot of people say they bond to much, or add to much synergy, these things don't really matter, as long as the units are fun to play, with most are from how I play tested with Proxies, one thing is for sure, not one person can say that they can't wait for wave 8 to come out even if the don't like some of the units.[Which most can't say, because they have only looked at the cards.]
Case in point, the Wolves, when their card was released at least 50 people said they were over priced. After many games with them, I found that they are perfectly priced, and my new favorite unit.

I think people should play the units before judging them, which is what I usually do now. Everyone is so quick to judge the negatives, before the positives, and those people always look over the fact that these units are just fun to play.

[Hedge Knight]

Well said Finrod!

There was an absolute blizzard of speculation when the wave 7 units were announced, and the Books were put up before anyone had the figures. Then you had about 10 pages of speculation on each unit before you got to someone who had actually USED them.

I really hope we don't see the same thing with the Books for wave 8, because it watered down the quality of the Books for wave 7 considerably.

Actually I just checked and it's too late. 10 pages on Gurei-Oni.

Now I know some people may be playing with proxies, but for the most part it's just speculation, and amounts to a lot of useless jabber.

So thank you for saying this! It will almost certainly fall on deaf ears, but thanks just the same.

[Shades fan]

Originally Posted by Hedge Knight

Well said Finrod!

There was an absolute blizzard of speculation when the wave 7 units were announced, and the Books were put up before anyone had the figures. Then you had about 10 pages of speculation on each unit before you got to someone who had actually USED them.

I really hope we don't see the same thing with the Books for wave 8, because it watered down the quality of the Books for wave 7 considerably.

Actually I just checked and it's too late. 10 pages on Gurei-Oni.

Now I know some people may be playing with proxies, but for the most part it's just speculation, and amounts to a lot of useless jabber.

So thank you for saying this! It will almost certainly fall on deaf ears, but thanks just the same.

I would agree. That is why their has been some really helpful members, that started threads about speculation about the Wolves, and other things about them, this help keep the book relatively clean!

Thanks to you members!

[Uprising]

+Rep coming your way Finrod. Great post man.

[markwars]

I agree with the Finned One. TheoryScapers always seem to know when something is broken immediately, but the true experts tend to wait to see how those units perform in actual game settings. How many people thought the Minute Men were worthless when we first saw their stats? Or how many crowed about how unstoppable Cyprien was? The proof had to wait until actual games were played on hexes and not in a land of pure theory.

And the fact of the matter is that even if a unit is "broken" when it is released that doesn't mean that there won't be subsequent releases that "fix" it. We've seen this too. Even the embattled Taelord was given some redemption when he was placed upon a castle wall.

[Jexik]

There are always some people who do have a pretty good feel for these things though. Jormi_Boced noticed immediately that the Marro Stingers were the next big thing, and went on to take 4th place with them in a tournament just a day or two after they were released. I'll likely pick up at least a squad or two of the Groks regardless of the hype on them- negative or positive. They look like too much fun to pass up.

Ever since the 4th Mass explosion, I think players have become a lot more savvy about what makes a unit good... in a highly competitive environment. There's more to this game than that, but it's definitely a side of the game that a fair number of us enjoy. Results speak a lot louder than people theoryscaping.