[Dad_Scaper]

Thank you for sharing that video, Marrowick, and thank you for responding so thoughtfully to my post.

My thoughts about the video:

I don't disagree with Penn's assessment of the encounter. He described a person who approached him privately and engaged him courteously, both extending the bible and acknowledging that he was being forward while doing so. And, remember, Penn is an outspoken atheist, which means he has indicated an openness to a certain level of discussion of theological matters.

It would be comparable to you seeing me write something in one of these threads and then writing me a PM asking me to discuss your religious views privately, and trying to sell them to me. Politely, and not publicly.

What Penn is not defending is what I called the sale of religion to strangers in a public coffee shop. You do not go into Starbucks and pitch your religion to the person in front of you in line, and to the person in the back of you in line, or to both at once. Because we all understand, intuitively, that that's rude. Penn is describing a scene in which he has opened himself up to some social interaction - signing autographs after a show - and has also made himself open to discussions of religious matters. That is not the same as the context of the Heroscape Book of Anubian Wolves thread, where the universe at large has not come for a discussion of the virtues of your faith.

You'll note, for instance, that Penn refers several times to how the man looked at him in the eyes. He took it as an honest and respectful approach. Conversely, selling your faith to all on the internet who visit a hobby site for something unrelated have not made themselves available for a dialogue like that.

I understand the "how could I not proselytize" argument. I've heard it before. You articulate it very well; Aldin has made it also on these pages in the past.

Understand what I see, when I read these arguments: I am (assuming I reject your faith, and continue with whatever sinful path I am hypothetically on) going to hell. My children are going to hell. Others who I care about are going to hell. Why? Because we are not like you. I understand that the proselytizing comes from a place of love, as you see it, but understand that to me it is coming from a place of judgment. And you are nobody to judge me, no matter what your motivation. It is deeply disrespectful; it is a rejection of my own experience of myself.

I think you would like to say that you are not judging me, and you would offer some fine distinction between "judging" and whatever it is that causes you to feel like it's up to you to share with me how you feel about whether I deserve to burn in fire for all eternity. But to me, it looks and feels like judging. And, in this relationship, I am a member of the general public who chooses to come to this site to look at stuff about Heroscape, so it is not really up to me to participate in the conversation, as it was up to Penn to participate in the private conversation with a respectful fan. I come here, minding my own business, I get a sales pitch which comes packaged with an assessment of my unworthiness.

Also, turning back to Penn's video, he talks a bit about how dangerous proselytizing can be. A group of people sure of its worthiness to judge the relative worthiness of another group is capable of doing terrible, terrible harm. It might be out of love that you would use political muscle, for instance, to bend people to the will of your vision of God's design, but you don't know these people you would bend, and some of those who are bent will break. You can cause a lot of suffering, in the name of your god, if you are willing to judge others in His name.

Thank you again for your discussion and sharing the interesting video. I have lots more to say on this subject, but for now I will leave it at this.