[OEAO]

Originally Posted by heroscaper2010

I can agree with the Mimring assessment. And Mimring is certainly better with AGs purely based on Fire Line itself. GWs WANT to be around Mimring which makes them more likely to be in the way of Fire Line. Note also that if you can get a good fire line but have to move away from GWs and/or Raelin to do so, GWs are might not be optimizable. With the AGs, fire lining your own figure is less concerning. It’s similar to Quahon with Spiders, and a part of the reason why Spiders are better for her (cheaper, more expendable). That’s not even talking about Disengage or their range.

I do find it slightly odd to knock AGs on their offensive ability when that’s not really where their value comes from. It’s like saying the Deathreavers are bad because they don’t provide offense. (Sure, Rats can screen for a lot more armies but the identity of the unit is the same. Also, AGs will always be taking turns unreliant on Scatter to keep a screen and they provide slightly better offense anyways).

I think it’s a common rule of thumb to not take more points in GWs than your Dragon, meaning a max 3 squads of GWs. That’s 9 GWs, if not just 6 at the lower end of competitive point totals. Compare that to AGs.

Spoiler Alert!

400 = Mimring + AGs x3 + Raelin 1.0 + MWs
405 = Nilfheim + GWs x2 + Raelin 1.0 + Marcu
410 = Mimring + AGs x3 + Raelin 1.0 + MWs + Isamu
415 = Nilfheim + GWs x2 + Raelin 1.0 + Marcu + Isamu
420 = Mimring + AGs x3 + Raelin 1.0 + MWs + Marcu
425 = Nilfheim + GWs x2 + Raelin 1.0 + Marcu + Isamu + Bol
430 = Mimring + AGs x3 + Raelin 1.0 + MWs + Marcu + Isamu
435 = Nilfheim + GWs x2 + Raelin 1.0 + MWs
440 = Mimring + AGs x4 + Raelin 1.0 + MWs
445 = Nilfheim + GWs x2 + Raelin 1.0 + MWs + Isamu
450 = Mimring + AGs x4 + Raelin 1.0 + MWs + Isamu
455 = Nilfheim + GWs x2 + Raelin 1.0 + MWs + Marcu
460 = Mimring + AGs x4 + Raelin 1.0 + MWs + Marcu
465 = Nilfheim + GWs x2 + Raelin 1.0 + MWs + Marcu + Isamu
470 = Mimring + AGs x4 + Raelin 1.0 + MWs + Marcu + Isamu
475 = Nilfheim + GWs x2 + Raelin 1.0 + MWs + Marcu + Isamu + Bol
480 = Mimring + AGs x5 + Raelin 1.0 + MWs
485 = Nilfheim + GWs x2 + Raelin 1.0 + KMA
490 = Mimring + AGs x5 + Raelin 1.0 + MWs + Isamu
495 = Nilfheim + GWs x3 + Raelin 1.0 + MWs
500 = Mimring + AGs x5 + Raelin 1.0 + MWs + Marcu
505 = Nilfheim + GWs x3 + Raelin 1.0 + MWs + Isamu
510 = Mimring + AGs x5 + Raelin 1.0 + MWs + Marcu + Isamu
515 = Nilfheim + GWs x3 + Raelin 1.0 + MWs + Marcu
520 = Mimring + AGs x5 + Raelin 1.0 + MWs + 40-45pts/2hexes (not confident anymore that a 6th squad of AGs is the most optimized)
525 = Nilfheim + GWs x3 + Raelin 1.0 + MWs + Marcu + Isamu
530 = Mimring + AGs x5 + Raelin 1.0 + KMA
535 = Nilfheim + GWs x3 + Raelin 1.0 + MWs + Marcu + Isamu + Bol
540 = Mimring + AGs x5 + Raelin 1.0 + KMA + Isamu
545 = Nilfheim + GWs x3 + Raelin 1.0 + KMA
550 = Mimring + AGs x5 + Raelin 1.0 + KMA + Marcu
555 = Nilfheim + GWs x3 + Raelin 1.0 + KMA + Isamu
560 = Mimring + AGs x5 + Raelin 1.0 + KMA + Marcu + Isamu
565 = Nilfheim + GWs x3 + Raelin 1.0 + KMA + Marcu
570 = Mimring + AGs x5 + Raelin 1.0 + KMA + Marcu + Isamu + Bol
575 = Nilfheim + GWs x3 + Raelin 1.0 + KMA + Marcu + Isamu
580 = Mimring + AGs x5 + Raelin 1.0 + Q10
585 = Nilfheim + GWs x3 + Raelin 1.0 + KMA + Marcu + Isamu + Bol
590 = Mimring + AGs x5 + Raelin 1.0 + Q10 + Isamu
595 = Nilfheim + GWs x3 + Raelin 1.0 + Q10 (KMA/MW?)
600 = Mimring + AGs x5 + Raelin 1.0 + Q10 + Marcu

Blue: No MWs for Nilfy/GWs, but AGs are only a squad up.
Red: Nilfy/GWs gain MW support, but AGs go 2 squads up.
Green: Probably the optimal point range for AGs. 3 squads above GWs.
Purple: Pretty even Dragon builds.
Orange: Other competitive builds can trade better against the AGs.

Always 6 figures ahead. Interestingly, 520-525 might be their competitive plateau. From there, other squads can up their numbers so they can trade equally and still have room for range support. I think this is most obvious from Boromir’s VCheese army (Knights x4, Gilbert, Raelin, MW). Knights below that point total have to sacrifice something: A squad or two, range support, Raelin, or a combination of those.

Yeah, I get what you're saying, but I need more results. Plus, most of those Nilf armies you listed are unoptimized; Marro Warriors + Filler is much worse than getting the 3rd squad of Greenscales. For example, at 450, the best Nilf army is Nilf, Rae, 3x Greenies. Marro Warriors just aren't necessary when you already have a dragon.