[Astroking112]

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

I've pointed them out, multiple times. It stifles the custom community by being an alleged 'gold standard' for every design and designer to strive for, while being elitist, restrictive, critical of creativity and cliquey. I honestly think this project has done more harm to the community than good, all told.

I agree with you to an extent. Too many creators focus solely on trying to appease SoV for sure. Part of that is a testament to how most of the active playerbase left uses C3V to some extent--of course if someone has an idea that they're very proud of, they'd like for it to achieve the same level of recognition. That's a natural feeling. Unfortunately, because VC is intended to be an extension of the original game, which was largely simple enough to appeal to children and broad masses, this leads many people to focus on designs that they think will pass instead of what they want to make. Luckily, I've never seen a VC member push a creator to design solely for SoV--just the opposite, in fact.

That said, there are still multiple creators out there who don't just design for SoV and have plenty of great units because of it. I always enjoy looking through threads from creators like @Scytale , @flameslayer93 , @Pumpkin_King , your own thread, and plenty more. Not all of the stuff I see is something that I think belongs in SoV, but it's still great content that I appreciate.

To say that VC has done more harm than good to the community feels very misguided to me. Yes, there are downsides to the project and now, nearly a decade after cancellation, too much of the community's focus is placed solely on it. That said, we're looking at the community nearly a decade after cancellation. To say that just because most of the remaining active members place a high level of priority on VC means that those 9 years of effort have hurt the community far more than helped it is incredibly disrespectful to the many years of work that people have put into these projects.

It's not just 'another project'. It's monolithic. VC brands itself as being the face of Classic Heroscape now, to the point that Classic creators are overshadowed (I remember someone criticising Dr.Goomonkey's contests because they weren't putting out 'official' content and therefore held no value), and, honestly, does a pretty bad job of it, as far as I can see.
C3G manages to be engaging, exciting, creative and prolific. VC is glacial, restrictive, and aggressively elitist, at least from an outside perspective. That's honestly part of the reason Classic became less interesting to me than Superscape, and in my book that's an absolute crying shame.

VC brands itself as a continuation of Classic HeroScape because that's what it is designed to be. That's why the designs, the many processes, and everything strives to make the cards feel as much like official cards as possible. That's one of the reasons that many of its fans like it so much. Sure, just like official 'Scape, there are some designs that I personally don't care for. However, for every one of those, there are more creative and exciting cards that push the boundary of official 'Scape in meaningful ways, despite the many restrictions inherent in making "official"-esque cards.

Again, it's perfectly fine if you don't like VC's style (although honestly "does a pretty bad job of it" is hardly a compelling criticism of the designs, but oh well). Everyone I know in VC has made a point of not trying to homogenize random customs. One of the things that I personally like about Dr.Goomonkey's Contests is that they aren't just VC-ish designs. Even if it's not my cup of tea, I can still appreciate the hard work that goes into those designs, and I'd never dream of constantly going into those threads to trash them.

Originally Posted by wriggz

I do think the SoV workshop should move into the SoV section as to not dominate the customs board in the same way al C3G stuff is hidden in a sub form. I actually think SoV works better when someone else nominates the unit instead of work shopping your own unit to get it approved.

So your argument is good but the vemon is a tad extreme, however i guess this is the internet after all. I actually think it may be worth discussing the workshop thread and the nomination process as a group and not dismiss these concerns outright.

I agree that these seem like reasonable actions. My impression behind the Pre-SoV Workshop being outside the C3V/SoV section was that it originally had a lot more commenters and wasn't primarily associated with the judges, but the two seem closely enough related at this point that I think moving it out of the general Classic Customs section is justified.

I also like it when people nominate customs that aren't their own (and would like to see that happen more frequently as a general note), but I think that the workshopping and whatnot would still go on in any case.