[caps]

Conversation so far, centering around Moria orc squads and possible hero ideas

Originally Posted by Splash

We could give the Moria orcs and archer goblins the same personality and do a bonding/synergy thing on both for common squads that have it.
Make them a more formidable combo for what might otherwise be low stat squads.

Originally Posted by capsocrates

Maybe the melee ones could have something like

ORC HORDE
After revealing an order marker and before taking a turn with the Moria Orcs, you may move up to four Orcs with the <name> personality up to 5 spaces each.

Like the Glads and Blasts, or Nakitas and Goriliinators, but melee moving the range instead. I don't want the ranged ones to be able to move figures because it is too good for them to be able to move their screen and attack on the same turn. I would stick with 2/2 for all of them. I envision the melee ones as a 4-figure squad.

I'm not sure the melee ones need another power. But maybe they do?

The ranged ones should be a 3-figure squad, but I'm not sure what their power should be.

I think we should figure out what Middle Earth orcs have in common. Is it a power? A personality or class? A particular stat line? Is it the Orc Horde power I mentioned above?

Does anyone remember any passages from the book that distinguished between the different kinds of orcs? Anyone have some time to go digging?

Are the Moria Orcs and Great Eye Orcs distinct enough to be separate cards or should we just have one card? A way to do this might be to make them a 3 figure squad and give them

ORC CAPTAIN BONDING
At the beginning of the game, select a general. For the rest of the game, after revealing an order marker on the Orcs of Middle Earth and before taking a turn with them, you may first take a turn with an Orc Captain that follows the chosen general.

I didn't want to do bonding for the orcs, but if we want to have just one card for all orc squads in Middle Earth, then we could use the Captains to make Moria Orcs feel different from Great Eye Orcs. Obviously Uruks would still be a separate card.

Originally Posted by Chris Perkins

I think it's worth making 2 separate cards there. There are tons of orcs, after all. I suggest we call them "Goblins" & "Mordor Orcs".

I think it would be interesting if goblins got some form of boost for being on cave and/or shadow spaces, like perhaps a +2 move if they spend their whole turn on those spaces. Thematic of being strongest in Moria & underground the misty mountains.

Then the "Mordor Orcs" could get some form of bonding, as you described. Would make a big enough difference in playability; the mordor orcs are normally the stronger squad except on certain dungeon maps, like the stingers / drudge divide.

I also like the Goblins being able to move their archers, low cost / low point squad but there are a lot of them in play, which seems quite thematic.

So the set of Orc squad cards with this proposal would be:
Goblins
Goblin Archers
Mordor Orcs
Morder Orc Archers
Uruk-hai
Uruk-hai Crossbowmen

Their could be a height increase / size difference there too, perhaps goblins are 3 / small, orcs are 4 / medium, and uruk-hai are 5 / medium.

Originally Posted by capsocrates

They weren't goblins, they were orcs. And some of them were orcs from Mordor, which I had forgotten. Gimli says in the chapter before that the orcs looted Moria of Mithril and gave it as tribute to Sauron.

I like your idea of Moria Orcs getting a bonus in shadow and dungeon spaces though.

I was rethinking the "Orc Captain" idea. If they bond, they should bond with Orc Champions, just like the other two orc squads. And we should consider making some of our new Orc heroes as Champions.

Originally Posted by Chris Perkins

You're right, I mixed up the terms there a bit.

If I remember right, the "biggest" difference between orcs & goblins was that Tolkien used the word "goblins" in the Hobbit & largely used the word "Orcs" in LotR. I think they were the same species, just different vocabulary.

So we could either:
Include "Goblins" in a Hobbit-specific release
or
Change "Goblins" from my post to "Moria Orcs".

Originally Posted by capsocrates

It seems you are correct about the vocabulary, and I learned something today. There are many sites explaining it, but this is the most succinct one.

Originally Posted by White Knight

Goblins and orcs are the same thing. Uruk-hai are stronger orcs from Isengard.

But is also says that orcs are larger than goblins:

And here are some pictures of the Sabertooth Games LotR orcs:

Uruk-hai






Orcs










sd