[quote=Son of Arathorn;2221701]
Spoiler Alert!
[quote=Looking East;2221645]
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Originally Posted by Son of Arathorn
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Originally Posted by Looking East
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Originally Posted by dok
While I’m not going to argue that the Cathar aren’t very good (they are) and that they can be frustrating to play against for certain, monolithic builds (they are), they’re not broken (IMO). Three little words: Human Champion Bonding. Or Warlord Bonding. Or even Orc Champion Bonding. Anything that let’s your allegedly worse melee bruisers mitigate Braced Spear, or coordinate a ranged unit to negate its effects altogether.
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If you can build an all melee army that can consistently beat an equal number of points worth of Cathar Spearmen I would be impressed. You can use any combination of all the melee pieces in the game. Do you know of any build that could pull this off? When I say all melee, I am including special attacks and special abilities. I'm not being sarcastic. I am being serious in asking if you can come up with a melee build that will take them down.
I guess to make things more fair both sides should get a Raelin since she is so brokenly strong in a melee only match up that she would really skew the results if she was on one side but not the other.
My guess is the best approach would be using extremely cheap bonded melee squads capable of throwing a lot of attack dice per OM. They need to be very low cost so that they don't just lose to attrition from the D20 and they need to throw a lot of attack dice to overcome the godly defense the spearmen have.
Since there would be no Zelrig style specials to worry about probably the bonded orcs or romans would fair decently since they are super cheap and could huddle up for bonuses without penalty.
I'm curious enough now to try actually making a game of it next time I get together with my friends to play. Perhaps we will have a "Beat the Cathar Spearmen Challenge Night" to see if anyone can do it.
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Originally Posted by Son of Arathorn
Spoilered the whole post for length reasons.
You seem to have missed this part of my post:
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Anything that let’s your allegedly worse melee bruisers mitigate Braced Spear, or coordinate a ranged unit to negate its effects altogether.
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So I’m not sure why we’re talking about all-melee builds. Anyone* who brings such an unbalanced army to a tournament expecting to go far deserves the hard lesson they’ll get. And I can only assume competition is the concern here.
Are you running Knights of Weston? Use Sir Gilbert or Finn to engage the Cathars and some 4th Mass to soften them up. What about Romans? Bring on the Azurite Warlord to engage, and 4th Mass or 10th Reg paired with Marcus to pour on the fire. Heavy Gruts? Use Ornak to fling Krug or an Ogre Warhulk into them, or Moltenclaw to break their lines. Axegrindwrs of the Burning Forge? Mok and Morgrimm Forgehammer will carry their weight and then some. Capuan Gladiators? It might suck to be you, to be honest, but the Steamroller ain’t perfect.
I guess my point here is that if your opponent keeps crushing your scissors with his rock, maybe try a piece of paper. Preferably one with a pattern that doesn’t clash.
*Anyone not named Matthias
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Not that I really care anymore (because I don't play with VC), but this post is pretty ridiculous. Sure, the majority of the community is quite bad with melee. However, all-melee armies are still Tier 1 and, when piloted correctly, can beat anything.
Your army suggestions seem to involve very large point totals. The Grut one is straight-up ridiculous. Cathar are especially efficient at lower totals than those you seem to be implying.
@Looking_East:
Are Cathar A? Probably, although I'd lean towards low A+ seeing as Hounds are a B+ and Cathar are way better for 15 less points. Fun to play against? Nope. However, are they broken? Nope. Good melee can still beat them, just like anything else.