The Book of Klarion
 

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Character Bio - Klarion the Witch-Boy is a young adventurer and magic-user. Born in the underground Limbo Town, he is a member of a divergent human race descended from the pilgrims. Despite his immense power, he is childish and naive. His familiar is an intelligent cat named Teekl who can communicate with him.
-DC Wiki
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-Rulings and Clarifications-

• N/A

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-Combinations and Synergies-

Incoming Synergy:

• Figures chosen for Chaotic Antics can be within 6 clear sight spaces of a Teekl you control.
• Klarion may have a wound removed from his card by Teekl's Magical Healing special power.
• As a figure with the Magical Defense special power, Klarion has these Magical Defense Synergies.

Outgoing Synergy:

• After revealing an Order Marker on Klarion's card and before taking a turn with Klarion, if you control Teekl, you may first take a turn with Teekl.

Immunities, Benefits, and Weaknesses:

• As a figure with the Magical Defense special power, Klarion interacts differently with certain special powers.

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-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-

• N/A

-Heroscapers Community Contributions-

• Initial Playtest: Arkham
• Second playtest: Ronin
• Third playtest: Soundwarp
• Art: Comic, Figure, Background
• Art by Arkham
• Klarion was created by Jack Kirby.

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Breathing)
 

NAME = KLARION
SECRET IDENTITY = KLARION BLEAK

SPECIES = CROATOAN
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = WITCH
PERSONALITY = CHAOTIC

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 4

MOVE = 5
RANGE = 4
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 4

POINTS = 235

CHAOTIC ANTICS
Instead of attacking, choose 2 figures within 6 clear sight spaces of either Klarion or a Teekl figure you control, and roll 2 combat dice. If you roll:
• 2 skulls, place each chosen figure on any empty space within 4 spaces of its original placement; or
• 2 shields, switch the chosen figures; or
• 2 blanks, each figure receives 3 wounds; or
• a shield and a blank, switch the Wound Markers on the chosen figures' cards; or
• a skull and a blank, move up to one marker from each chosen figure's card to any other card in that figure's army that is in play, if possible; or
• a skull and a shield, move one Wound Marker from one of the chosen figures' Army Cards onto the other chosen figure's Army Card, if possible.
Figures moved by Chaotic Antics never take any leaving engagement attacks.

MAGICAL DEFENSE
When Klarion is attacked by an opponent's figure that does not have the Magical Defense special power, the most wounds Klarion can take for this attack is one.

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Breathing)
 

Comic:


Figure:


Background:

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Breathing)
 

Shouldn't they have two different books since they will have two different cards?

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Breathing)
 

Possibly. We’ve had combined books until completion before, no?

If it were possible, I’d love to find a way to make these guys a combined draft somehow. I don’t believe we’ve done that yet, but a combo draft feels like the most thematic approach here as I see no reason to draft them apart.

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Breathing)
 

I believe we have spun out glyphs before after running them together in one thread. With how you have Teekl set up, I can't see any reason why anyone would draft him without Klarion, but Klarion could conceivably be drafted by himself. Doubtful it will happen often as Teekl is a pretty good add on, but it is a possibility. As for drafting them together and at the same time, I don't think we need any special rules for that. Just make that a house rule when you are drafting army cards.

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Breathing)
 

Yeah - my family and I when we used to do drafting in Classic always ruled that Iskra and the Retchets were one draft choice to limit aggressive denial drafting! :)
Also, as to the one vs. two threads thing, I noticed that Gert Yorkes and Old Lace were one thread until completion - seems a similar situation here. :shrug:

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Breathing)
 

I think it's perfectly acceptable to run these two in one thread and then break them out at the end.

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Breathing)
 

I'd probably want to shuffle around Teekl's powers. Maybe move the clear sight bit to Familiar Bond and keep the movement stuff all together. I'd also consider dropping Defense to 2. 9 Life with healing could make him very annoying. Guess that's up to testing, though.

For Klarion - this isn't something we're 100% consistent with, but usually "X the Y" characters are titled as name only, with the title being the class. Ronan the Accuser is Name: Ronan, Class: Accuser, for example. So he would be name: Klarion, Class: Witch Boy. I don't really anticipate Witch having much synergy, so I don't think it makes a big difference.

Really love the designs even if they're going to be a headache to balance. Good luck. :p

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Breathing)
 

I figure might as well strike while we seem to have an influx in testing. :lol:

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Breathing)
 

I'll be frank... I know it is our aesthetic, but it's also one I really, really dislike. It feels weird to consciously remove parts of the name that characters are iconically known as and it becomes particularly weird if the name doesn't fit them as a class. I'd have been happier seeing Kraven as Kraven the Hunter rather than simply Kraven. In this case, 'Witch Boy' feels particularly weird as a class when simply 'Witch' would do if we weren't trying to stick to a weird aesthetic. (and it wouldn't entirely shock me if there were eventually some Witch synergy down the line).

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Breathing)
 

I'd definitely go Witch for class. Not clear on how he's typically referred to in-universe, but I'd probably drop 'the Witch Boy' from his name unless other characters really do tend to refer to him that way. If it's more of an editorial name, he definitely shouldn't get the whole thing.

I'd probably put Teekl's defense down to 1 or 2 as well. Right now he's tougher than Catman.

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Breathing)
 

Dredd got to keep his Judge title. :)

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Breathing)
 

Indeed Tornado, plus Reverand Stryker is the card title for that character. It's a tough call. We have secret identities in part to make some of this easier, but it doesn't always work out that way. Klarion, the Witch Boy is a really long name but just Klarion could be unrecognizable to some in the title of a Book or in an article or wherever else. For those reasons, I'd be in favor of keeping the full title. However, it would go against our precedent, and I am a big proponent of consistency. It seems I'm split.

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Breathing)
 

I look at Judge Dreed, Captain Marvel, etc. as a title or rank (appears before the name), where Ronan the Accuser and Klarion the Witchboy seem more like nicknames (appears after the name), so they seem pretty different to me. I don't think Witchboy should be the class here though, Witch would be the class, with Witchboy being more of an endearing or disparaging (depending on if it is said by a fried or foe) reference to his age.

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Breathing)
 

That does not bode well for Howard (the Duck). :)

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Breathing)
 

I see what you mean, a book titled just 'Howard' would be confusing, he really needs 'the Duck' added on to ID him. I don't know anything at all about Klarion, never heard of him before, so if 'the Witchboy' defines him much like 'the Duck' defines Howard then we should include it in the title. I think Ronan doesn't need 'the Accuser' to be identified.

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Breathing)
 

I would be perfectly okay with having the thread titled The Book of Klarion the Witch Boy and having the card just say Klarion, if that's the approach we decide to take.

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Breathing)
 

This. I was about to suggest this very thing, but Scapey :ninja:'d me. (Heh, just like old times, huh, Scapester?) ;)

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Vote for Initial Playtest
 

I changed Teekl's defense to 2. Updated Klarion's name to just Klarion for now.

I propose a vote to move to initial playtesting.
@Ronin
@johnny139
@Yodaking
@Tornado
@japes
@Spidey'tilIDie
@SirGalahad - Abstain

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Vote for Initial Playtest
 

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Vote for Initial Playtest
 

@dok @Soundwarp SG-1 @Dysole @weebaer

Any concerns or suggestions for playtesting?

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Vote for Initial Playtest
 

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Vote for Initial Playtest
 

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Vote for Initial Playtest
 

About to go out of town and in trying to catch up everywhere, I missed this one. Abstain for now.

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Vote for Initial Playtest
 

The lack of a range restriction on Chaotic Antics feels a little worrisome to me, as it lets you dictate terms of engagement to a nasty degree, but I guess there's really only one roll that really does anything as an opening move so it should probably be fine. Invisible/Intangible figures shut him down hard, especially since Teekl doesn't help against it at all, so he's got a sort of built in counterdraft 'safety valve' there too.

Can Brainiac's 12th Level Intellect alter the Chaotic Antics roll? I've never entirely understoood what the scope of 12thLI is supposed to be.

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Vote for Initial Playtest
 

I would say it wouldn't work since it calls out "attack and defense dice" whereas this power rolls "combat dice". Seems silly, but I'm guessing that's intentional.

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Vote for Initial Playtest
 

That's how I'm reading it too, but I've been burned too many times assuming old C3G cards are supposed to work in a way that has any correlation to how they're worded. :lol:

Kind of a shame, as it would have been a hilarious combo.

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Vote for Initial Playtest
 

Chaotic Antics is obviously pretty unreliable, but it still scares me a lot. A big part of that is that the most common effect (skull+shield; 1/3 of results) is one of the most powerful. I guess Mad Thinker does similar stuff but he can't bond.

The two shield effect is much more rare (1/9 of the results) but is crazy devastating if you switch a throwaway figure for your opponent's OM sink and get to pigpile on that figure while the rest of the army is across the map.

I'd suggest:

• Capping the range on these effects. It can be a big number like 10, but unlimited scares me a bit.
• Switching around the effects a bit so that the most common result is not one of the two or three most dangerous effects.

As far as Teekl goes, the powers are fine as long as you're OK with the price going up by a factor of 2 or 3. 9 life/2 defense is a lot, and the built-in healing and bonding (bonding that's not restricted like other bonding?) makes the kitty more useful than Catwoman for sure.

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Vote for Initial Playtest
 

Just for the record:

skull+shield 1/3
skull+skull 1/4
skull+blank 1/6
shield+shield 1/9
shield+blank 1/9
blank+blank 1/36

Might want to limit it to unique or common figures. Removes the question about destructible objects, and gets rid of weird interactions with event heroes (notably Mr. Mxy).

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Vote for Initial Playtest
 

Can someone run the odds for me? I tried organizing it based on greater odds being the lesser effects, but clearly I missed the mark. I figured skulls being the most likely would mean getting 2 skulls would be the most common. So I sort of used that logic to tier them out. 2 skulls being most likely, skull and shield being less likely, anything with a blank being unlikely, and 2 blanks being very unlikely etc.

As for a range limit, I suppose the idea is that you send Teekl out on the field to then allow Klarion to see what Teekl sees. That was the intent anyways. Though him needing to be adjacent to heal would make you have to choose how you want to play him. But Teekl being the scout to gain sight for Klarion, while Klarion hangs back and messes with things, was the idea. Open to suggestions on how that should work.

Edit: :ninja: Thanks on the odds listing. I'll restructure based on those. What do you suggest for Teekl and the range etc. then? Usually Familiars are used to scout and allow their master to see through their eyes to scry, so how would you work it all together?

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Vote for Initial Playtest
 

Yeah, the probabilities can be a touch counterintuitive. Basically it's the chance of each face multiplied by each other, but if it's two different faces then it's twice as likely because it can happen two different ways. The most intuitive way to understand it is probably to write it out as a tree diagram.

I'm fine with things within, say, 6 spaces of Teekl couning as within 6 spaces of Klarion. Or something like that. Gives the other team some time to react as Teekl moves forward. It's just the potential for the first turn super-switch from across the map that really bothers me. I personally think this seems more thematic (as you say, scouting ahead), too.

I should probably say that I'm not terribly concerned by this figure; the randomness of the power is going to keep it from being high-end competitive anyway. I don't think Klarion needs a big point bump or major redesign. I'm just trying to smooth out the most crazy stuff.

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Vote for Initial Playtest
 

Yeah the odds don't work out how you might think because (IIRC) while getting a skull is more common than getting a shield, getting a skull or shield is more common than either individually so the skull + shield total result can trigger off of more results of the first die than the skull + skull total result can.

If the intent is to use Teekl as a scout, which I'd rarely ever do with the current write-up outside of pretty specific maps, I'd try adding some 'Chosen figures must be within 6 (or whatever) clear sight spaces of Klarion or a Familiar figure you control.' wording to the end of Chaotic Antics.

EDIT: Kinda ninja'd by dok.

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Vote for Initial Playtest
 

Alright, changed things up based on discussion:
As for Teekl, we can cut them both sharing clear sight since Klarion already tackles that with his power which was the only reason for that verbiage on Teekl. So Familiar Bond can absorb Teekl's clear sight ability. Then change Magical Cat to just Agile Climbing from Catwoman:
Would people prefer to ditch the gimmicky 9 lives and just go with a more accurate 3-4 life with a defense of 5 for evasiveness? Thoughts on the healing needing to be adjacent? Does that counteract the design too much by simply using Teekl as a healing battery instead of a potential scout?

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Vote for Initial Playtest
 

That was my concern. Healing on Klarion is really valuable.

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Vote for Initial Playtest
 

I would ditch the 9 lives gimmick here. I like the dual roles approach where I can sent him out as a scout early on in order to use my powers at a greater range, but then I can recall him once I start taking wounds to have him come and heal me.

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Vote for Initial Playtest
 

I would see how it goes and try dropping Defense to 1 if needed.

They will work with Cap+SL combo so a good chance for +2A/D.

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Vote for Initial Playtest
 

One interesting thing is by drafting Teekl it allows Klarion to be one of the chosen figures for Chaotic Antics.

I'd be open to suggestions on how to better implement the healing to not overshadow the scouting idea. If we want to nerf the healing to once per game, and not have the adjacency requirement, or whatever works best, I'm game. It's essential IMO to make them a drafting combo as much as possible as they essentially rely on each other for survival, so that's important to convey.

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Vote for Initial Playtest
 

I think doing a more normal stat line (like 4 life, 4 defense or some such) would probably balance the healer/scout options out a bit better. 9 life makes Teekl a little too much of a beefy wound sink, I think. The whole 'cat people get 9 lives' thing just causes a lot of weirdness in general really.

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Vote for Initial Playtest
 

Since Klarion has 4 Life, maybe making the heal once per game but heal 3 wounds would work. It ensures a full heal, but if you are too late to the punch, you could lose Klarion first.

I would be comfortable with 1 defense or even 0 defense on the kitty in support of 9 lives. Sure, it's a bit of a gimmick at times, but it's a gimmick we're pretty committed to at this point, and this is a real cat, not even a cat-related character.

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Vote for Initial Playtest
 

Meh, kill your darlings.

It's not even a consistent gimmick, only like 2 of 9sh Cat people even do the nine lives thing.

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Vote for Initial Playtest
 

Yes: Catman, Catwoman (I), Wildcat (in development), Teekl

No; Catgirl, Hellcat, Black Cat, Catowman (II) (And both Shadowcats, Black Panther, White Tiger, etc)

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Vote for Initial Playtest
 

Also, Zabu doesn’t have 9 lives and he’s an actual cat too (well tiger in C3G, but that’s just a case of having a pointlessly narrow species).

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Vote for Initial Playtest
 

I'd be in favour of 9 Life + basically no defence here, not because he's a cat, but because he's a magical cat. Just being a cat or cat-themed shouldn't give you nine-lives, IMO (so all the ones in @dok 's No list I agree with and original Catwoman probably shouldn't have had it in retrospect), but making mystical cat powers = 9 Life (as we did on Catman and seem to be doing with Wildcat) seems like a nicely thematic and fun aesthetic.

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Vote for Initial Playtest
 

Doesn't really matter to me either way. I just want the designs to function well with one another without coming off as broken in a good or bad way. Klarion will already be super swingy and unreliable, so him being fun with Teekl as a pair needs to happen otherwise nobody will draft them.

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Vote for Initial Playtest
 

Thanks for the list dok! I didn't realize in the moment how many cat characters we actually had. That's fair enough. Catman and Wildcat have thematic reasons for having 9 lives. I can't speak for the old Catwoman design, but if Teekl does have mystical survivability, 9 lives is a good representation of that. If there is no such power for Teekl, then so be it.

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Initial Playtesting
 

The original Catwoman is kind of an anomaly. Catman's outfit is made of a magical cloth that gives him nine lives and Wildcat specifically has the power to come back from the dead nine times, which we represented in both cases as unnaturally high Life numbers. I also like Teekl at 9 Life, because Teekl is a "generically magical black cat" type of being, and having nine lives is really appropriate for a character that leans so strongly into its trope.

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Initial Playtesting
 

C3G INITIAL PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT Klarion & Teekl


Army Test 1
Map: Custom
Units:
Klarion(235), Teekl(75), Captain America(240), Star-Lord(250), Cosmo(160) (960)
vs.
Luke Cage(190), Iron Fist(260),Wolverine(280), Shang-Chi(230) (960)



Teekl's attack lowered to 2, and defense lowered to 1.

Army Test 2
Map: Custom
Units:
Klarion(235), Teekl(75), Captain America(240), Star-Lord(250), Cosmo(160) (960)
vs.
Luke Cage(190), Iron Fist(260),Wolverine(280), Shang-Chi(230) (960)



Army Test 3
Map: Custom
Units:
Klarion(235), Teekl(85), Captain America(240), Star-Lord(250), Bulldozer(190) (1000)
vs.
Fantastic Four (1000)



Army Test 4
Map: Custom
Units:
Klarion(235), Teekl(85), Captain America(240), Star-Lord(250), Bulldozer(190) (1000)
vs.
Professor X(220), Wolverine(280), Angel(90), Beast(170), Silver Samurai(240) (1000)



THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY:
After the 4 games I'm thinking the pair are ready to move into some Public Testing to see how others use them. They went 2-1 after the changes, and I like how they are feeling. Klarion's Chaotic Antics can really sway the momentum of the game, for better or worse. There were times he caused total wound swaps which resulted in an enemy Wolverine being destroyed as Teekl was completely healed, and other times where it worked in reverse and healed an enemy and killed an ally. The gamble of who you pick for the 2 figures, and all the potential results, always leaves an excitement and risk factor when rolling, as anything can happen. There are times you will want to choose 2 enemy figures, 1 figure of yours and 1 enemy, and even 2 of your own figures.

It's a crazy mechanic that lives up to the name and even though it's completely random, the pair is actually worth drafting as Teekl can still take a turn for a low attack, and Klarion's most likely result is a single wound transfer which can help the team. The pair feel like a natural link as it feels awesome using Teekl to extend Klarion's range, the healing factor, and even Teekl enabling Klarion to choose himself for Chaotic Antics due to being within clear sight. I feel the point values of each are very close to where they will end up, as each game felt close with Klarion at 235 and Teekl at 85.