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-   -   The Book of Orange Construct (Controller) (https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=56742)

MrNobody March 22nd, 2020 10:23 PM

The Book of Orange Construct (Controller)
 
The Book of Orange Construct (Controller)

C3G DC SUPER SECRET EXCLUSIVE 77
FESTIVAL OF LIGHTS: LESS IS MORE


http://heroscapers.com/c3g/released/...ller_comic.png
Comic PDF

http://heroscapers.com/c3g/released/...oller_mini.png
Mini PDF

The figure used for this unit is a Heroclix figure from the War of Light set.
Its model number and name are #009 / Controller Construct.

_________________________________________________________________

Character Bio - After a small contingent of the meddling Controllers (A group of immortals related to the Oans and Zamarons) made a gambit to seize the power of the Orange Light, they were consumed by it. Now, these Constructs serve in Larfleeze's mockery of an Orange Lantern Corps, a reminder of what happens when you challenge Agent Orange.
_________________________________________________________________

-Rulings and Clarifications-
  • N/A
_________________________________________________________________

-Combinations and Synergies-

Incoming Synergy:Outgoing Synergy:
  • N/A
Immunities, Benefits, and Weaknesses:
  • As a flying figure, Orange Construct interacts differently with these special powers.
  • As a figure with the Super Strength special power, Orange Construct interacts differently with these special powers.
  • As a figure with a secret identity, Orange Construct interacts differently with these special powers.
_________________________________________________________________

-Strategy, Tactics and Tips--Heroscapers Community Contributions-

MrNobody March 22nd, 2020 10:25 PM

Re: The Book of Orange Construct (Controller)
 
NAME = ORANGE CONSTRUCT
SECRET IDENTITY = CONTROLLER

SPECIES = ENERGY
UNIQUENESS = COMMON HERO
CLASS = CONSTRUCT
PERSONALITY = INSATIABLE

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 1

MOVE = 4
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 3
DEFENSE = 3

POINTS = 50


ORANGE CONSTRUCT AMBUSH
Orange Construct Controllers do not start the game on the battlefield. After revealing an Order Marker on Orange Lantern's Army Card, you may immediately place up to 3 Orange Constructs with this special power in your army that are not on the battlefield and not destroyed on any empty spaces within 3 clear sight spaces of that Orange Lantern. For the rest of your turn, when attacking with a figure placed with this special power, add 1 automatic skull to whatever is rolled. If you no longer control any Orange Lanterns, destroy all Orange Construct Controllers you control.

ATTENTION HOG
If a figure adjacent to one or more figures you control with the Attention Hog special power attacks a friendly figure without it, the attacking figure subtracts 1 from its Attack number.

SUPER STRENGTH

FLYING

MrNobody March 22nd, 2020 10:28 PM

Re: The Book of Orange Construct (Controller)
 
Mini Pic


Background


Comic Art

Arch-vile March 22nd, 2020 10:40 PM

Re: The Book of Orange Construct (Controller)
 
Mini pic:


I'm a fan of this one.

johnny139 March 22nd, 2020 11:16 PM

Re: The Book of Orange Construct (Controller)
 
Don't know these guys. My first question is whether the first line of the first power refers to just these guys (the Controllers) or to all Orange Constructs in your army?

I also think 4 Attack + an auto-skull could be very potent, but they are common heroes, so maybe that's not enough to make them too much. Larfleeze isn't much of a force at the moment, so might be warranted. We'll see!

MrNobody March 22nd, 2020 11:23 PM

Re: The Book of Orange Construct (Controller)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny139 (Post 2360442)
Don't know these guys.

Controllers themselves are one of those Legion concepts that wound up popping up in modern day. Real C-listers, even by Legion villain standards.

At the very start of the Agent Orange storyline, a small handful of them wander into Larfleeze's domain and try to screw with him. Doesn't go well.

Quote:

My first question is whether the first line of the first power refers to just these guys (the Controllers) or to all Orange Constructs in your army?
Should be this Orange Construct, to match Stolen Identity. Will update.

Quote:

I also think 4 Attack + an auto-skull could be very potent, but they are common heroes, so maybe that's not enough to make them too much. Larfleeze isn't much of a force at the moment, so might be warranted. We'll see!
Absolutely willing to tweak up or down. I am hoping to keep them at 50 points, just cause the Oranges are kinda limited in army building options and 50 is an easy number.

Ronin March 22nd, 2020 11:47 PM

Re: The Book of Orange Construct (Controller)
 
Quick question, thematically... I know we're using the Controller mini, but is this in effect really an Orange Construct (Controller) design, or more like a general-purpose Orange Construct that stands in for pretty much whichever character in Larfleeze's army?

No notes either way, more a point of curiosity.

MrNobody March 22nd, 2020 11:51 PM

Re: The Book of Orange Construct (Controller)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronin (Post 2360475)
Quick question, thematically... I know we're using the Controller mini, but is this in effect really an Orange Construct (Controller) design, or more like a general-purpose Orange Construct that stands in for pretty much whichever character in Larfleeze's army?

No notes either way, more a point of curiosity.

There's not really anything Controller-y about this design in practice. Fully intending this to be a foot soldier type unit for the Oranges.

Ronin March 23rd, 2020 01:37 AM

Re: The Book of Orange Construct (Controller) (Breathing)
 
Groovy. Seems reasonable to me, but do we still want to brand it as a Controller in that case?

MrNobody March 23rd, 2020 01:47 AM

Re: The Book of Orange Construct (Controller) (Breathing)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronin (Post 2360538)
Groovy. Seems reasonable to me, but do we still want to brand it as a Controller in that case?

I’m fine with them being called Controllers, just cause (A) that’s what the mini is, and (B) the Controller constructs act just like every Larfleeze construct. We could always call it Orange Construct (Minion) or something like that, just doesn’t seem totally needed to me.

IAmBatman March 23rd, 2020 09:38 AM

Re: The Book of Orange Construct (Controller) (Breathing)
 
I mean, if they're not Controllers, they probably shouldn't be Controllers ... ? This seems straightforward to me. :-)

johnny139 March 23rd, 2020 10:27 AM

Re: The Book of Orange Construct (Controller) (Breathing)
 
Just something simple and descriptive like Ambusher would probably work.

MrNobody March 23rd, 2020 11:02 AM

Re: The Book of Orange Construct (Controller) (Breathing)
 
My honest thinking is that they are Controllers, so why complicate things? If somebody doesn't immediately know what a Controller is (the majority of the population), that's what bios are for.

I'm not hugely resistant to a different name, but if we are looking for one, I think something that captures the villainous mook vibe makes sense. I like Minion. To me, the Orange Constructs are more "alive" than other Constructs, so I'd prefer something that implies a little personality over a name like Ambusher that simply presents them as a function.

Arch-vile March 23rd, 2020 11:12 AM

Re: The Book of Orange Construct (Controller) (Breathing)
 
The Controllers have like no personality or unique traits anyway, so I agree with Nobody here. Why call them something they're not? The mini is a Controller, and the design is generic because Controllers are generic.

johnny139 March 23rd, 2020 11:15 AM

Re: The Book of Orange Construct (Controller) (Breathing)
 
Without knowing what a Controller is it kind of works as a generic too, as their role is clearly to "control" the field. :2cents:

IAmBatman March 23rd, 2020 01:18 PM

Re: The Book of Orange Construct (Controller) (Breathing)
 
Sounds good. I was under the impression that they weren't actually Controllers, but that figure was just being used. :shrug:

Ronin March 23rd, 2020 02:40 PM

Re: The Book of Orange Construct (Controller) (Breathing)
 
Yeah, I'm cool with that. :up: Just wanted to raise the point.

I'm probably proxying with the Skeletal Maiden Horrorclix mini, since I have a few of those I'd love to have a reason to get on the battlefield.

MrNobody March 24th, 2020 10:47 PM

Re: The Book of Orange Construct (Controller) (VOTE for Init
 
Alright, been about 48 hours so I'd like to call a VOTE for Initial Playtesting.

Arch-vile March 24th, 2020 10:49 PM

Re: The Book of Orange Construct (Controller) (VOTE for Init
 
yea

tcglkn March 24th, 2020 10:51 PM

Re: The Book of Orange Construct (Controller) (VOTE for Init
 
Yea

Tornado March 24th, 2020 10:51 PM

Re: The Book of Orange Construct (Controller) (VOTE for Init
 
Yea

IAmBatman March 24th, 2020 10:55 PM

Re: The Book of Orange Construct (Controller) (VOTE for Init
 
I'm getting about 65 on the calculator, in case you wondered. :-D

Yea for initial testing.

MrNobody March 24th, 2020 10:57 PM

Re: The Book of Orange Construct (Controller) (VOTE for Init
 
And I'll even run the checklists for Bats. :)

COMPETITIVE REVIEW BOARD CHECKLIST
Spoiler Alert!


CONSISTENCY CHECKLIST (SHORT FORM)
Spoiler Alert!

MrNobody March 24th, 2020 11:07 PM

Re: The Book of Orange Construct (Controller) (VOTE for Init
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by IAmBatman (Post 2361200)
I'm getting about 65 on the calculator, in case you wondered. :-D

Yea for initial testing.

Thanks! I'll probably try the first game at 50 as-is, but I'm totally willing to drop stats if they're coming in too strong. Fiddling with the calculator, looks like subtracting 1 from Move, Attack, and Defense would get me to 50, so I'll play it by ear.

I think the goal here should be that they're solid attackers on the "ambush" turn, but after that you're kinda expected to use them as tie-up while Larfleeze takes shots. I really still want to encourage him to come out and play instead of hiding in the SZ. I think reducing their move would actually help with that too.

japes March 24th, 2020 11:30 PM

Re: The Book of Orange Construct (Controller) (VOTE for Init
 
yea

MrNobody March 25th, 2020 07:48 PM

Re: The Book of Orange Construct (Controller) (Initial)
 
This passes, btw.

MrNobody March 28th, 2020 06:53 PM

Re: The Book of Orange Construct (Controller) (Initial)
 
Quote:

C3G INITIAL PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Orange Construct (Controller)

Army Test 1
Map: Island Plane Crash (Glyph of Wannok)
Units: Team 1 (1,000):Larfleeze (360), Glomulus (140), Stolen Identity Construct x3 (300), Controller Construct x4 (200)
Team 2 (1,000): Nightwing (200), Starfire (210, Raven (190), Arsenal (190), Red Robin (Smoke Pellet) (160), Atom (50)


Pre-game thoughts: Wanted to start off with a little Glyph interplay just so that part of the Oranges isn’t being ignored.

Summary of the game:
Spoiler Alert!

Post-game thoughts: Note the clean sweep on initiative by T1. A rough loss for the Oranges. I may have played Larfleeze a bit too proactive here, but Atom did practically nothing here, so the Oranges essentially lost to a 950 pt Titans team.
___________________________________________________________

Army Test 2
Map: Island Plane Crash (Glyph of Wannok)
Units: Team 1 (1,000):Larfleeze (360), Glomulus (140), Controller Construct x10 (500)
Team 2 (1,000): Nightwing (200), Starfire (210, Raven (190), Arsenal (190), Red Robin (Smoke Pellet) (160), Atom (50)


Pre-game thoughts: A re-match with all Controllers in place of the Stolen Identities, just to see which feels more effective.

Summary of the game:
Spoiler Alert!

Post-game thoughts: There was definitely some good luck going on here, but I do feel like the Controllers are a bit too powerful, overshadowing the Stolen Identities.
___________________________________________________________
NOTE: Lowered Move to 4 and Attack to 3.

Army Test 3
Map: Island Plane Crash (Glyph of Wannok)
Units: Team 1 (990): Larfleeze (360), Livewire (Psiot) (230), Orange Construct (Controller) x8 (400)
Team 2 (1,000): Fantastic Four

(Sorry they’re not even, japes)

Pre-game thoughts: Trying an exploit with Livewire to give the group an extra attack a turn.

Summary of the game:
Spoiler Alert!

Post-game thoughts: This combo is really strong, enabling Larfleeze to constantly throw extra attacks of 7 dice on top of what his Constructs are doing. And speaking of the Constructs, even with their decreased attack and move they absolutely shredded the F4 with Orange Construct Ambush easily allowing them to get around the F4 to Invisible Woman.
Well, this isn't going to be as easy as I thought. :lol:

Taking a brief pause here to share with the class. I've run into 2 core problems here;

1) Controllers are a better value than Stolen Identities all things considered, so it's kinda hard to justify drafting the SIs when you can get 2 Controllers for the same cost. I want these guys to make the Oranges more viable as a whole, but I don't want the new guys to overshadow what I view as the "soul" of the faction. (Larfleeze+Stolen Identities) To that end, I think a power along the lines of this could really help;
Quote:

HORDES OF THE HOARDED
All Orange Constructs that are not Controllers that are adjacent to 1 or more Controller Orange Constructs add 1 to their Defense number.
I don't really care about the specifics, but I like the idea of adjusting them to be Constructs that support other Constructs, rather than just a combat Construct at half the cost of the main combat Construct. Any ideas on how to make something like that feel more Orange?

2) Larfleeze+Livewire+Controllers is a good combo. Don't really have an easy solution here, so it may just have to be what it is.

johnny139 March 28th, 2020 09:26 PM

Re: The Book of Orange Construct (Controller) (Initial)
 
I think it would make more thematic sense (as an "ambush" unit) to have them subtract from opponents' attack than add to your guys' defense.

MrNobody March 28th, 2020 11:08 PM

Re: The Book of Orange Construct (Controller) (Initial)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny139 (Post 2362724)
I think it would make more thematic sense (as an "ambush" unit) to have them subtract from opponents' attack than add to your guys' defense.

Makes sense to me.

Quote:

NAME = ORANGE CONSTRUCT
SECRET IDENTITY = CONTROLLER

SPECIES = ENERGY
UNIQUENESS = COMMON HERO
CLASS = CONSTRUCT
PERSONALITY = CORRUPT?

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 1

MOVE = 4
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 3
DEFENSE = 3

POINTS = 50?


ORANGE CONSTRUCT AMBUSH
These Orange Constructs do not start the game on the battlefield. After revealing an Order Marker on Orange Lantern's Army Card, you may immediately place up to 3 Controller Orange Constructs in your army that are not on the battlefield and not destroyed on any empty spaces within 3 clear sight spaces of that Orange Lantern. For the rest of your turn, all the placed Constructs add 1 automatic skull to their attack rolls. If you no longer control any Orange Lanterns, destroy all Controller Orange Constructs you control.

ATTENTION HOG
If a figure adjacent to this Orange Construct attacks any other Orange Construct you control that is not a Controller, that figure subtracts 1 from its Attack number.


SUPER STRENGTH

FLYING

I do think it's best to drop You're Mine! if we're adding this power. YM! didn't come up at all in my 3 games anyways really; they're so good at swarming that you'll often be engaged with 2 or 3 at a time, meaning you're not really planning to disengage anyways.

I'm suspecting stats might have to go even lower to keep that 50 point price tag. Hoping they don't drop too much more, but these guys still feel like an effective threat even at 3 attack dice.

While we're at it, anyone have personality thoughts? I went with Corrupt cause that's what the SIs are, but I don't really know if we want to repeat a personality. Not a major issue, just something to think about.

Arch-vile March 28th, 2020 11:30 PM

Re: The Book of Orange Construct (Controller) (Initial)
 
That change works for me.

Going through the sortable index for personality: Aggressive, Cruel, Deadly, Destructive, Envious, Fearsome, Greedy, Insatiable, Opportunistic.

MrNobody March 28th, 2020 11:33 PM

Re: The Book of Orange Construct (Controller) (Initial)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Arch-vile (Post 2362764)
That change works for me.

Going through the sortable index for personality: Aggressive, Cruel, Deadly, Destructive, Envious, Fearsome, Greedy, Insatiable, Opportunistic.

Thanks Archie! I like Insatiable. The Lanterns are Greedy, SIs are Corrupt, and Glomulus is Ravenous. Insatiable feels like a nice addition there.

Lord Pyre March 29th, 2020 10:56 AM

Re: The Book of Orange Construct (Controller) (Initial)
 
Don’t know these guys, but looks good. Fine with the proposed changes. Do you want them to protect Orange Lanterns also? Or just constructs?

MrNobody March 29th, 2020 12:03 PM

Re: The Book of Orange Construct (Controller) (Initial)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Pyre (Post 2362857)
Don’t know these guys, but looks good. Fine with the proposed changes. Do you want them to protect Orange Lanterns also? Or just constructs?

Maybe they should be protecting OLs, but mechanically I think that would be a pretty big power boost, and thematically I can justify it either way. I think I’m leaning towards just having them protect Constructs for now.

MrNobody March 30th, 2020 01:30 AM

Re: The Book of Orange Construct (Controller) (Initial)
 
Version Tested
Spoiler Alert!


Quote:

NOTE: Changed out You’re Mine! for Attention Hog

C3G IINITIAL PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Orange Construct (Wiimote)

Army Test 1
Map: Island Plane Crash (Glyph of Wannok)
Units: Team 1 (1,000): Larfleeze (360), Glomulus (140), Stolen Identity x3 (300), Controller x4 (200)
Team 2 (1,000): Luke Cage (190), Iron Fist (260), Spider-Man (250), Speedball (150), Jewel (150)


Pre-game thoughts: Testing out the new power. Also loaded T2 up with some juicy targets for the SIs.

Summary of the game:
Spoiler Alert!

Post-game thoughts: Larfleeze really struggles when faced with units that can dodge around his Constructs to target him.
___________________________________________________________

Army Test 2
Map: Island Plane Crash (Glyph of Wannok)
Units: Team 1 (1,000): Larfleeze (360), Glomulus (140), Controller x10 (500)
Team 2 (1,000): Luke Cage (190), Iron Fist (260), Spider-Man (250), Speedball (150), Jewel (150)


Pre-game thoughts: Another rematch to see if this change has made them less viable as solo units.

Summary of the game:
Spoiler Alert!

Post-game thoughts: A win, but a small one. They’re scrappy, but ironically in this game I really missed getting Construct Iron Fist or Construct Spider-Man. I like that part of the strategy with this army is choosing what enemy units to target and take for your own. Feels very greedy.
Feels spot-on theme-wise, and I'm convinced they can be balanced at 50 points without too many changes. They're probably pulling a tad more than their fair share of weight, but I think the Oranges need that in order to galvanize them a bit, and I think the addition of the new power makes it so they're not overwhelming the other (more exciting) options the faction has.

Didn't try them with Luthor, but I'm not really worried about that combo at all.

Arch-vile March 30th, 2020 01:23 PM

Re: The Book of Orange Construct (Controller) (Initial)
 
Looking good!

MrNobody March 30th, 2020 02:14 PM

Re: The Book of Orange Construct (Controller) (VOTE for Publ
 
I'd like to call a VOTE for Public Playtesting.

tcglkn March 30th, 2020 02:19 PM

Re: The Book of Orange Construct (Controller) (VOTE for Publ
 
Yea

Arch-vile March 30th, 2020 03:13 PM

Re: The Book of Orange Construct (Controller) (VOTE for Publ
 
yea

Don't forget to link the initials.

IAmBatman March 30th, 2020 10:22 PM

Re: The Book of Orange Construct (Controller) (VOTE for Publ
 
yea

Ronin March 30th, 2020 10:34 PM

Re: The Book of Orange Construct (Controller) (VOTE for Publ
 
yea

Lord Pyre March 31st, 2020 09:45 AM

Re: The Book of Orange Construct (Controller) (VOTE for Publ
 
Yea

MrNobody March 31st, 2020 10:41 AM

Re: The Book of Orange Construct (Controller) (Public Playte
 
This passes.

Arch-vile April 3rd, 2020 03:02 PM

Re: The Book of Orange Construct (Controller) (Public Playte
 
C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Orange Construct (Controller)

Army Test
Map: Song of the Walrus
Units: Larfleeze, Glomulus, Stolen Identity x1, Controller (50) x4 (800) VS Nightwing, Starfire, Raven, Miss Martian (800)
Spoiler Alert!

___________________________________________________________

Army Test
Map: Song of the Walrus
Units: Larfleeze, Glomulus, Stolen Identity x1, Controller (50) x8 (1000) VS Fantastic 4 (1000)
Spoiler Alert!


THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: Super fun. But it’s tricky to evaluate the Controller Constructs' balance. They felt really fun to play and the Orange Lanterns really feel like the whole corps like in Agent Orange. I like that you have to continually spawn more each turn to get their attack bonus. But they’re really weak defensively, and you can basically ignore them and just go after Larfleeze since taking him down kills the entire army too. I certainly miss the lockdown power! I didn’t get any use out of the Attention Hog power, but it could have come up if the Fan4 decided to attack the Stolen Identity.

I’m not sure if I could have played Larfleeze better. Ideally he’d have a few Controllers as meat shields, but if you leave them there they don’t get the attack bonus, and you don’t want to be wasting turns with them without the attack bonus. So I could see a small boost somewhere (maybe letting Attention Hog apply to Orange Lanterns) if they feel a little weak in the next tests.

MrNobody April 3rd, 2020 03:37 PM

Re: The Book of Orange Construct (Controller) (Public Playte
 
Thanks Archie!

My thing with the lockdown power was that when it's so easy to surround the enemy with Controllers, and they're so easy to kill, adding lockdown just seemed like overkill.

I'm definitely super open to tweaks though, and 2 losses tell me that being overpowered isn't something to be too worried about. I'm gonna have a quick think about what to do next.

MrNobody April 3rd, 2020 11:03 PM

Re: The Book of Orange Construct (Controller) (Public Playte
 
Quote:

ATTENTION HOG
If a figure adjacent to a Controller Orange Construct attacks any other figure you control that is not a Controller Orange Construct, the attacking figure subtracts 1 from its Attack number.
How does this look? Just went ahead and upgraded it from Orange Constructs only to all figures. I think that might make them semi-draftable with Lex, which is cool even if it's not a primary goal. They'd be like deployable Daring Decoy lites for him, basically like what the Green Decoys are but suckier.

Arch-vile April 3rd, 2020 11:14 PM

Re: The Book of Orange Construct (Controller) (Public Playte
 
That'd be helpful for sure. :up: Anything to keep Larfleeze alive a little bit longer. I can't imagine it being too powerful since it doesn't stack.

MrNobody April 4th, 2020 03:20 PM

Re: The Book of Orange Construct (Controller) (Public Playte
 
Updated with that change. :up:

IAmBatman April 8th, 2020 10:05 PM

Re: The Book of Orange Construct (Controller) (Public Playte
 
C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM
NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: ORANGE CONSTRUCT (CONTROLLER)
Army Test
Map: Custom
Units: Larfleeze (360), Glomulus (140), Construct Controllers (x6) (300), Construct Stolen Identity (x2) (200) (1,000) vs Green Lantern (Hal Jordan) (350), Green Lantern (Kyle Rayner) (300), Green Construct Decoy (x2) (100), Green Construct Mech (120), Green Construct (Helicopter Gunship) (130) (1,000)
Spoiler Alert!

___________________________________________________________
Army Test
Map: Custom
Units: Larfleeze (360), Glomulus (140), Construct Controllers (x8) (400), Construct Stolen Identity (x1) (100) (1,000) vs Fantastic Four (1,000)
Spoiler Alert!

___________________________________________________________


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