Can Sgt Drake grapple up a ladder with an enemy? Disengage?

[reluctant]

Hello,

Yesterday I bought the castle expansion and played a scenario with some friends. All of us are new so we we came across many new rule related challenges We were only unable to resolve one of them and I decided to come here and ask.

Sgt Drake was at the landing space of a ladder and was engaged by a figure on the ladder (ie, the figure couldn't move any lower). The question is could Sgt. Drake grapple "up the ladder" to bypass the enemy figure? If so and if the ladder was short enough that he would still be engaged at the top of it, would he forgo disengagement?

I apologize if this is a duplicate question but was unable to find the answer after re-reading the rules, the FAQ, and googling the forum.

Thank you for your time and wisdom,
reluctant

[netherspirit]

He can't grapple gun through a figure, I am pretty sure that is what you are asking...

[Tiberius]

Good question and the answer would be no for two reasons, the first being that Sgt Drake would not be able to disengage without taking a disengagement strike, though that by itself would not stop him from trying. The other is Drake cannot pass through enemy figures, if you treat the grapple gun like a normal form of movement, just replacing is actual movement then the same rules apply. Drake cannot pass through enemy figures as he does not have Agent Carr's ghost walk ability so he could not go up the ladder and bypass the person on it.

[OmniMoose]

If he had ghost walk... but he doesn't that would be moving through a figure, however if it's yours..... But it's not because your asking about disengage which irrelevant because he cannot.

[Revdyer]

It's a really cool question, though, and one I've never heard anyone ask before! Welcome, reluctant!

[Elstree]

I agree on the point about disengaging, but has there been a ruling about Drake grappling up the ladder? If so, does he have to be on the ladder landing space to do it?

Here's what I'm thinking: Ordinarily when Drake uses his grapple gun, he grapples into an adjacent space many levels above. So, if Drake took a step to the side out from underneath his opponent on the ladder (taking a disengagement roll as he did), could he then grapple to a location on the ladder above his opponent?

[Homba]

That is a good question, reluctant. It has never been asked or officially answered. Elstree, your additions are definitely relevant.

Grapple Gun 25
Instead of Sgt. Drake Alexander's normal move, he may move only one space. This space may be up to 25 levels higher. When using the Grapple Gun, all engagement rules still apply.

If you're just trying to grapple up a ladder with no enemy figs involved, I don't know if you can do that or not. The power says "only one space" which may rule out simply going higher up the ladder if considered "zero spaces." I could see Craig ruling either way - Drake predates the ladder rules by a long time, and we've learned there is a lot we didn't know about Drake who has quite an extensive FAQ.

On the other hand, you can clearly start out on the ladder, and grapple up to 25 levels higher, if you end your move in an adjacent space -- one space from where you started down below.

Originally Posted by Elstree

Here's what I'm thinking: Ordinarily when Drake uses his grapple gun, he grapples into an adjacent space many levels above. So, if Drake took a step to the side out from underneath his opponent on the ladder (taking a disengagement roll as he did), could he then grapple to a location on the ladder above his opponent?

Not exactly per your example, because you can't take a normal step with Drake, THEN grapple (unless you mean on his next order marker). But if you STARTED your move phase in the space beside (adjacent to) the ladder, you could grapple up onto the ladder because it cleanly fits into the ability text - a higher level, one space away. You'd suffer the disengagement strike if you'd been engaged when you started the Grapple.

Mid-Grapple interdiction: Picture a Grapple up 25 levels, beside a ladder (not starting from the ladder's landing space - so you're not going straight up the ladder). If you pass by an enemy figure that's half way up the ladder, you become engaged with him, and then leave engagement as you continue past, at which point he gets a leaving swipe at you. Pretty cool. This would work the same way for Grappling past an enemy standing in a little alcove indented half way up the face of a 25-level cliff.

Finally, reluctant's big question - can you grapple "through" an enemy figure? I'm pretty sure you can't. Though "GRAPPLE GUN" is the flavorful ability title, the ability doesn't seem to in fact be a "teleport." It is just an alternative "move" and uses the word "move." A move of only one space, up to 25 levels higher. So just as if you were moving up a 4-height cliff with a 5-height figure, Drake moves up the side of the elevation, counting the levels as he goes, passing through each level. As has been noted, he doesn't have Ghost Walk, so he can't move through an enemy figure if one is in his way above him (as could only occur on a ladder). If the text said "place Drake at the top" teleport-style, there would be an argument.

Only doubtful one IMO is whether you can start on a ladder rung (or in the landing space) and grapple straight up a very tall ladder to another rung higher up.

H

[Nooblar]

I'm failing to see why it's not possible to grapple through a figure on a ladder. The card only mentions engagement rules still applying, and Grapple obviously bypasses most of the normal rules about movement anyway. Intuitively, yeah I think it's not likely he can do it (super action-movie-hero stunt!) but mechanically it doesn't appear to me that he's restricted.

I predict Craig will rule no, just because you can't give too much power to older abilities just because they're older.

[Tiberius]

I thought it was that he could not move through a figure, he can disengage and take the swipe from someone on the ground with him but he cannot move through someone like ghost walk.

[Cavalier]

Originally Posted by Tiberius

I thought it was that he could not move through a figure, he can disengage and take the swipe from someone on the ground with him but he cannot move through someone like ghost walk.

That is exactly how I read it. Someone could not climb a ladder through an opponent; therefore I say that you cannot grapple through one either.

[Nooblar]

So are we going to submit this one? Stranger things have happened (cough, Taelord, cough)

[DarkSpade]

However, if he's using his grappling gun, then he's not technicly using the ladder. Looking forward to an official repsonse on this interesting question.