Really good door question... I hope.

[that guy]

Hey, it's that guy and I finally got sick of just reading everyday so here is my question. Can a figure start his move off the door space, move onto it, open the door and then continue his move? I needed to let my fellow attacker inside the castle but also wanted to attack the defender, but the defender wouldn't let me do it.

Patiently waiting for my greeting and all responses. that guy.

[AgentX-127]

Originally Posted by that guy

Hey, it's that guy and I finally got sick of just reading everyday so here is my question. Can a figure start his move off the door space, move onto it, open the door and then continue his move? I needed to let my fellow attacker inside the castle but also wanted to attack the defender, but the defender wouldn't let me do it.

Patiently waiting for my greeting and all responses. that guy.

What does the rulebook say?

If I recall it correctly, the rule states that you can open or close the door any time you have a figure on the door control space. That would include before, during, or after your move.

[that guy]

That's what I said but the defender of the castle was not having it so I just thought I'd check. Thanks for the quick response.

[nyys]

Yeah, the RB states that the door can be open and closed at any time as many times as you want (even when it's not your turn) as long as there is a model on the door space.

So I would definetly agree that you can make a partial move onto the door space, open/close the door, then finish the rest of that models move.

[Aranas]

Are you saying a figure can open the door while "on the move" ( i.e. not starting nor ending its move on the door control space, simply passing on it)???


Aranas

[Cavalier]

Originally Posted by Aranas

Are you saying a figure can open the door while "on the move" ( i.e. not starting nor ending its move on the door control space, simply passing on it)???


Aranas

A strict reading of the rules would say that you simply have to be on Door Space 4, not starting or ending there.

[Aranas]

"...as long as the controlling player's figure occupies..."

"...If the figure moves from...the door cannot be opened or closed."


I read it the other way.
Since English is only my second language, I can't really argue.
I would appreciate more opinions expressed on the matter.
Anyone? Revdyer?


Aranas

[Revdyer]

I would think that the nuance of the word "occupies" indicates the figure resting on the space, not just moving through it. Certainly in the context of the rules, that is the intention of the wording.

One might argue for the moving through being an occupation there, but it would be, in my opinion, a very slim and merely technical reading. On this one, though, I don't think there is any question about what the rules authors intended the rules to say.

[Aldin]

Welcome to the boards, that guy!

On behalf of our occupied and taking the stupid freaking castle door and flinging it from a four story window so that we've finally dealt with it once and for all community I extend to you a laurel and a hearty handshake.

As a new member, you can begin your journey on the path to the fellowship, praise and respect of your Heroscapers peers by checking out this announcement: http://heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=6970

~Aldin, feeling better now that he got that off his chest

[AgentX-127]

Originally Posted by Revdyer

I don't think there is any question about what the rules authors intended the rules to say.

I hate to say this, but I most respectfully disagree with you, Rev.
And, I believe that my interpretation is the way the designers intended the door to work, too!

My reason for saying so lies in their (designers) preference to establish the most straightforward and simple rules.
We have not seen moving as a restriction or suspension of other rules or abilities.
For instance, if you are moving a Grut past one of the Nakita Agents, you will stop for a moment to resolve the the Engagement Strike, and if the Grut lives, you can continue moving.

Now, I understand that your stance is influenced the most by the use of the word "occupies," as it can imply a state of rest.
However, taking an example from the field of Physics, an electron can be said to occupy a certain orbital, while understanding that the electron in a state of constant motion.

Here I think that "occupies" is being used simply as a term for "standing on." Which I believe can mean that this is for a moment, not necessarily implying "at rest."

I am not a "rules lawyer," I honestly just think that the rules say what I thought they said. Now, I am a bit confused.

And, I am sure this won't end here!

[Revdyer]

Originally Posted by AgentX-127

I hate to say this, but I most respectfully disagree with you, Rev.
And, I believe that my interpretation is the way the designers intended the door to work, too!

My reason for saying so lies in their (designers) preference to establish the most straightforward and simple rules.
We have not seen moving as a restriction or suspension of other rules or abilities.
For instance, if you are moving a Grut past one of the Nakita Agents, you will stop for a moment to resolve the the Engagement Strike, and if the Grut lives, you can continue moving.

Now, I understand that your stance is influenced the most by the use of the word "occupies," as it can imply a state of rest.
However, taking an example form the field of Physics, an electron can be said to occupy a certain orbital, while understanding that the electron in a state of constant motion.

Here I think that "occupies" is being used simply as a term for "standing on." Which I believe can mean that this is for a moment, not necessarily implying "at rest."

I am not a "rules lawyer," I honestly just think that the rules say what I thought they said. Now, I am a bit confused.

I am sure this won't end here!

So, you really think the authors' intention was the "running" door open and/or shut? I find that incredible, and genuinely do not believe that is what they designed the door to do. I guess we'll have to ask.

By the way, I would argue that while clever, the physics use of the word "occupies" doesn't really apply to game design or rules syntax.

[AgentX-127]

Originally Posted by Revdyer

So, you really think the authors' intention was the "running" door open and/or shut? I find that incredible, and genuinely do not believe that is what they designed the door to do.

Why not?
It doesn't smack of an exploit to me.
Players opening the door to fire with range then closing it again after the attack feels more like an exploit!
I hate that tactic, but it is perfectly legal.

I think the "running door control" situation is pretty rare.
Most likely it is going to be an attacking force doing it, and if they want to leave the door open and not retain the control of it, why not?
Seems realistic to me that a force that is overrunning a Castle might not be as concerned about retaining control of the door once it is open.

But back to the question of the designer's intent, I really do think they wanted the door mechanism to be defined as simply as possible:
Any time my figure occupies the door control space, I may change the state of the door. Any time.
Be it the beginning of my turn, the end of my turn, or during the middle of your turn, just to bug you! :P
Simple.

So far Heroscape has avoided some of the crazy timing-specific rulings that you see in games like Magic:The Gathering, and I do think that it is the designers intent to keep it that way.

So, you have a Nakita Agent next to the Door Control space but not in the way of the door itself.
I run up to the door control space with my Arrow Grut. I want to open that door.
The Test:
Am I on the Door Control spot? Yes. Then I can open the door.

"But wait," cries my opponent, "I get to roll for an Engagement Strike." Well, sure, and maybe that Grut does not survive, but still, I had him on the Door Control spot for a moment, and that is all it took to satisfy the requirements for me to control the door.