Welcome to C3G SuperScape!

[Splash]

Originally Posted by japes

This is all a copy right. If the original still exists in the legacy area...no reason to spoiler it here. Just delete it.

Yup, done

[NecroBlade]

As promised, here's a quick overview of all the stuff to like about C3G 2.0:

Name & Identity. This (along with other things) may have been part of C3G 1.0 and not new to 2.0, but it’s still an excellent idea given the wild history of comic books.

Faction, Synergy Tags, Publisher, and Keywords. These all create hooks that really open up design space and allow you to get appropriately creative and specific with abilities. I especially like that Factions seem to be limited to one per card, as this would be an area to bloat easily. If I could do without one, it would probably be Publisher, as that seems more like a “meta” tag, but I’m sure you can find some fun things to do with it. Keywords are a great and pretty much necessary way to expand the usual Synergy Tags.

Round and turn breakdown. There are a lot of steps, but this clarifies some things that original Heroscape wording was lacking, as well as allowing really fine-tuning abilities and their timing. I won’t go too far into specifics, but Actions within Phases within Activations within Turns gives a clear, if long, picture of exactly when everything takes place.

Falling damage. On the one hand it may seem a little strange for an extremely huge figure to take falling damage from moving down 10 levels, on the other hand the simplification of removing a step of math really helps things along. This simplification where possible is a great theme throughout 2.0. I also like that figures hit terminal velocity after 40 levels.

Multi-based figures. Still seem relatively impractical without building maps very carefully, but I applaud the effort to make them possible given how many things in comics can probably qualify.

Transition Phase. Further improvement of the definition of “after moving and before attacking”.

Aiming. Using any part of the figure for both the attacker and the defender frees the cards from having to include a hit zone area. Coupled with the obstruction rules, this means that more shots will be taken but there are also more defense dice to be had, which balances out. I also like the cylinder rules. Sculpt agnosticism makes sense given the variety available and saves the trouble of attempting to confirm availability. Although arguably difficult to visualize perfectly, I would actually kind of like this as a default rule (always using the cylinder to determine aiming, regardless of sculpt).

Symbols. Not only is this a great idea for some of the more common abilities, the absolutely simplicity of all of them (give or take Flying; it has always been wordy but intuitive) is a nice touch. My one small criticism is that Magical Affinity is more of an inverse ability, though I have always liked the representation theme. Resistance and Weakness symbols are also great. Typing for damage opens up a lot of design space, and again does so with excellent theme.

Destructible Objects. This is another great example of simplifying things to elevate the whole. The classifications are easy to remember and let you get right into the action without bogging things down. Likewise, the Throw SA stats nicely mirror the Defense numbers and have memorable Ranges (small caveat for Small DOs thrown by non-SS figures, but I doubt I could throw a mailbox more than 2). I won’t go into detail on a lot of the other specifics, but I like all the rules for entering, occupying, controlling, and moving DOs as well as their cover rules. They really allow for a lot of dynamic, thematic play.

Hazards, Resources, and Items. Not to different from Glyphs of the past, having stuff around the battlefield (in addition to DOs) to collect and fight over is great for scenarios and just plain fun.

Terrain Types. I like the idea of typing terrain, like attacks, to open up thematic design space. Plus it’s cool that a few of them interact with Symbol abilities by default. Again, not going to go into too much detail, but I like what interiors and all the various ways to interact there (Transit, Elevators, Stairways, and Windows) add to the game. Turbo Lifts, adding/removing terrain, and separate, extension, interior, and connective maps all also expand the possibilities and fun factor.

One Shots & Story Cards. I like the theme that these can bring to the game. Just by the few examples given, it’s clear that they really create comic book moments.

Overall there is a lot to like about C3G 2.0! It definitely makes me want to go back and view my own customs through this lens. Well done to all involved.

[NecroBlade]

And the (less fun) editing notes:

Page 3:

Spoiler Alert!

Weird spacing of the “1+” in the first line of Figure Cards.

Page 4:

Spoiler Alert!

I assume the d6 conversion is mapped to the way skulls/shields/blanks are laid out on standard combat dice, but wouldn’t it be less confusing to group results instead of having to remember that 3, 4, and 6 are hits, and 2 and 5 are blocks?

Page 5:

Spoiler Alert!

“See Crossover Symbol” could include a page number like other references. Game Phase 2: Rounds should say “there are six distinct round phases” (there are 6 listed on the next page).

Page 6:

Spoiler Alert!

Cleanup should be capitalized like the other ROUND PHASE headers. The last two sentences of Turn Phase 2 reference the incorrect phases/number of phases (should be 3-6 and include Transition).

Page 7:

Spoiler Alert!

The Terrain page reference under Move Phase isn’t green like other page references.

Page 8:

Spoiler Alert!

“See Wound and Life” could include a page number like other references.

Page 9:

Spoiler Alert!

The Echo overhang example would need 8 move, right, since she has to move out from under the overhang first? Probably better to move her a space toward the camera for the “Move of 7” example.

Page 10:

Spoiler Alert!

Change “highest elevation change” to “largest” to avoid confusion with the figure’s level on the battlefield. I have zero experience with multi-based figures so I’m unable to say if anything else could use clarity without actually trying it on the battlefield first.

Page 11:

Spoiler Alert!

I assume Joker is behind the box in the clear sight example, LOL. Could be a little clearer on obstruction if Batman overlapped the barrel a little, but that may be nitpicking.

Page 12:

Spoiler Alert!

What is “(or before a normal attack)” meant to clarify in the C3 header? It seems to be causing me more confusion than anything. “See Special Attacks” could include a page number like other references.

Page 13:

Spoiler Alert!

I believe End of Turn is meant to say “do not need to do anything specific during Turn Phases 6 and 7”, not 5 and 6, since 5 is the Attack Phase (I’m guessing this is a holdover before Transition Phase 4 got inserted). Weird spacing between Phases 6 and 7.

Page 14:

Spoiler Alert!

“See Special Attack and Special Move” could include a page number like other references.

Page 16:

Spoiler Alert!

What happens when a DO is Thrown but cannot be placed adjacent to the defender? I assume the DO is defeated, but could be good to include that here.

Page 19:

Spoiler Alert!

Dropped items only specify “within 1 space”, does that mean they can be “dropped” onto an adjacent skyscraper 30 levels higher?

Page 21:

Spoiler Alert!

“Figures cannot trace clear sight through Elevator Shaft spaces of different levels.” Does this mean Flying figures just one level above/below each other in the shaft can’t see each other?

Page 22:

Spoiler Alert!

“Move from the inside of one broken window to the inside of another”. Presumably these windows are directly above/below each other. Does this cost only one move - in other words, is the figure moving directly from broken window to broken window, or do they have to move “outside” the building, then back in to the other broken window (spending 2 move total), and can this be done up/down only one level or any number?

Page 24:

Spoiler Alert!

Second sentence of the second paragraph under “Choose the Terrain Piece”, “removing” should be capitalized. Additionally the two steps feel redundant, since they both say “if you messed up, start over.” That really just feels like a single process that doesn’t need to be broken in two.

Page 25:

Spoiler Alert!

Under Connective Maps “instructions in the card” should be “instructions on the card”.

Page 26:

Spoiler Alert!

The One Shot requirement text says the card will include for example the Magical Affinity symbol, but on the example cards shown it says “Requires: Magical Affinity” using the ability name, not the symbol.

No comments on the Glossary, as I haven’t read through that.

General:

Spoiler Alert!

Why do most of the right-side headers say “Rules” instead of referencing whatever section their page is in (e.g. “How to Play”)? I get that the section headers would be on the left side if it were actually printed as a rulebook, but it seems keeping the section names would improve at-a-glance readability, while “Rules” is the broadest topic possible.

Card layout thoughts:

Spoiler Alert!

I assume Range and Attack are grouped together because they’re related, was there thought to similarly grouping Defense and Life? Perhaps also a sword instead of crosshairs for units with Range 1 to reinforce the “can only attack adjacent” rule? Likewise I see the Synergy Tags kept their original order, but I always thought it would be nice to have them listed Personality/Species/Class as that could be read more naturally (at least in English: e.g. Valiant Atlantean King). Just throwing these out there since they’re changes that would never happen officially, but something like SuperScape would be more open to.

[Tornado]

Thanks Necro!

[Yodaking]

Some of the questions you asked/suggestions made, were debated internally and advocated for/against by some. In the end votes were held and things ended up the way they are.

[japes]

Originally Posted by NecroBlade

As promised, here's a quick overview of all the stuff to like about C3G 2.0:

First, Thank you for taking the time to delve in to those depths and then type all of that out. It means a lot truly.

Glad to see someone else liked the Cylinder rules. Most of our events were with Elementary School and Middle School kids as my son grew up so we have used the Cylinder rules for ages. Personally I even have smaller bases for Small/tiny figures and Larger bases for above Medium for quick reference when a figure can throw something but is limited on size. Makes smaller figures have smaller "hitzones" but also smaller vision to hit other things. We've always felt it was a nice trade off for simplicity.

I've always maintained the Heroscape as a basic system is simple so it's a great game. With the complexity that C3G cards can get to in some of the more advanced teams it was good for our group to simplify a lot of the root things such as the Throwing, Falling, DO's, etc. And the Obstruction rules meant that we could eliminate a lot of table clutter with cards for every little thing. Simplify root elements so the cards can shine. No need to invent a power so you can put a box on the map.

I'll comb through the edit suggestions when I get more time, but wanted to thank you again for your kind words.

[NecroBlade]

Originally Posted by Yodaking

Some of the questions you asked/suggestions made, were debated internally and advocated for/against by some. In the end votes were held and things ended up the way they are.

I can't imagine things got this far without lots of discussion. I just wanted to offer an outside perspective, with no illusion about whether or not any changes will or even need to be made.

Originally Posted by japes

First, Thank you for taking the time to delve in to those depths and then type all of that out. It means a lot truly.

Glad to see someone else liked the Cylinder rules. Most of our events were with Elementary School and Middle School kids as my son grew up so we have used the Cylinder rules for ages. Personally I even have smaller bases for Small/tiny figures and Larger bases for above Medium for quick reference when a figure can throw something but is limited on size. Makes smaller figures have smaller "hitzones" but also smaller vision to hit other things. We've always felt it was a nice trade off for simplicity.

I've always maintained the Heroscape as a basic system is simple so it's a great game. With the complexity that C3G cards can get to in some of the more advanced teams it was good for our group to simplify a lot of the root things such as the Throwing, Falling, DO's, etc. And the Obstruction rules meant that we could eliminate a lot of table clutter with cards for every little thing. Simplify root elements so the cards can shine. No need to invent a power so you can put a box on the map.

I'll comb through the edit suggestions when I get more time, but wanted to thank you again for your kind words.

That's cool to hear about the cylinder rules. The praise of all the excellent choices of the 2.0 system is definitely the more important post of the two!

[IAmBatman]

Some quick membership updates for y'all: @Ericth74 has stepped back to Legend ( on a job well done as a Hero!) and @Arch-vile has stepped up as a Hero again to fill the void.

[Tornado]

Thanks Eric!!
Welcome back Arch!

[Karat]

Maybe now we will see some more maps... enjoy your retirement Eric!

...welcome back to herodom Arhie, the conversion king!

[Matt Helm]

2.0 ?!?!?!

Wow, you can't color my superhero tights by accidentally mixing them in with the regular laundry but you can sure color me impressed.

Nice work everyone.

[Tornado]

Thanks Matt!
It has been a long process but worth it.