Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

[Foudzing]

Ceremony by Shurrig: I have now played a lot of games on Ceremony, it's my go to map when I want to play a fast game, the whole map get used every game. The high center really incent everyone to gather in the center but the ranged figures sometimes want to stay away from it and try to used the sides to kite, leading to a very interesting and balanced melee vs range machup in my opinion. The choice for the range to either go for level 4 and camp there or kite is very interesting.
The Los blockers are excellently placed too, they significantly block some vision AND movements paths, for such few los blockers that's great use of them.
I found no way to abuse the map in any of my games.
The aestetics are very nice and extremly convenient for tournament play with one level corresponding to one color. The only thing I don't like about this map is the water lines that are mostly useless and are annoying to build and take space on the table, but like it's whatever lol.
YES to induct!

Olympus by RainyDays: I have a bit less games played on Olympus but all of them where excellent and nail biting, the whole map get used, I'd say that despite the road this map is very sightly on the range friendly side, but nothing concerning, completely playable for melee (no need for a Nilfl glyph lol). This is also a map that incent to move forward and keep moving, you can try to setup on the level 2 plateau on the left but this spot it completely "attackable."
The aestetic is excellent, finally some mirror symmetry map that looks like a landscape and that doesn't scream "MIRROR". The combination of "double lines" startzones and mirror symmetry is actually a great thing to not have the fight cater onto one side and an underused feature in competitive mapmaking.
One minor downside is that the trees aren't super effectie at los blocking, and en d up helping range more than disturbing it, the big tree does a little job but not that much, but to be honest we know that we need double forest to have some significant los blocking going on anyway.
YES to induct!

 

[superfrog]

Frostmire by @Flash_19

Frostmire is one of my favorite maps. It uses a set combo that has long been represented in WoS (with Platypus), but has an entirely different feel to it. In some ways it feels like a less-extreme version of Canary, with accessible 2-hex perches for ranged figures outside the SZ and a central jungle tree. The glaciers divide the map into lanes, all of which strike the sweet spot between smooth pathing and interesting height differences. It's a bit smaller of a hex than some WoS maps, only 15 hexes across the center, rather than the 16 of Venom or B23. But the level 0 edges of the SZ combined with the jungles bushes along the very edge help the sides not feel overly fast.

Great map, easy to induct.

Sundered Sea Stronghold by @Sheep

For a while I considered nominating Sheep's map Framework, which was the basis for this map. SSS seems like an upgraded version of the same concept, and the 10 jungle pieces makes the map feel lush and protected. Really, it could probably work with 6 bushes, dropping the ones on the edges, but as submitted it's fantastic.

I love the start zones, the 5/8/11 back three rows feels so obvious but it's rarely seen. The level 2 pathing is great, and there are good safe development spots across the map, especially on the left. But the height is slightly skewed to the right, so both sides feel useful.

Side note, I think we need physical pictures of the intended pillar orientations for AoA maps, as VS doesn't really capture that information.

to induct.

 

[Sheep]

Side note, I think we need physical pictures of the intended pillar orientations for AoA maps, as VS doesn't really capture that information.

I know you have this, but here it is for everyone else’s information:

*Just the central pillars have the end walls hanging off them (can’t even see the one from this angle lol)

Thanks for the vote Frog!

 

[superfrog]

Withering Pines by @Flash_19

I have long been a Withering Pines supporter, going back to its previous version, so I was excited to give this new version a try after seeing it in some games on SASCon streams. I selected it for use in the inaugural SCWL and was able to play on it and watch many games as well.

My main takeaway after all of these games is that Withering Pines doesn’t play as dynamically as other lava/road maps, notably Stechavan, currently the only WoS inductee using those sets.

Flash has occasionally referred to Withering Pines as a forerunner to Aeon, and I think that’s pretty accurate. The road shape is similar, and the height around it also has parallels. But while I love Aeon, I don’t think that similarity works in favor of Withering Pines very well. For example, the level 3 and 4 lava on the wings of the map has been almost entirely ignored in every game I’ve seen. On Aeon that area is rock and it becomes a safe place from the road, and provides interesting strategy for development and mid-game repositioning. Turning it into lava makes it a big risk relative to the safe level 3 and 4 inside the ruins.

One other small dislike was the specific asymmetry around the ruins (something I’m normally a fan of, see Aeon or my next post in this thread). Here Flash adds another level 3 lava hex to the long ruin side, which cuts off a 6-move path from SZ to level 2 road, something I found frustrating in a few games. In general the sides of the SZ felt very far away from the action, especially because the center of the map sees all the action.

I vote on Withering Pines.

 

[superfrog]

I would like to nominate my own Arboretum to WoS. It uses 1 RotV, 1 RttFF, and 1 TJ, with 2 random glyphs.

While it was originally created for (but not submitted to) the ScapeCon I map contest, it has been used widely in the past year after getting updated in 2024.

Usage includes:
OHS 58
New England January 2025
MARS Philadelphia January 2025
AZ January 2025
MARS MD February 2025
AZ February 2025
SCWL Season 1
(Most of these events are linked here on heroscape.org).

It is also currently scheduled for use in:
NorCal May 2025 (they are using the SCWL map pool)
Wisconsin May 2025

Arboretum is a huge map but I have found that each section of the map sees play. The main height that gets fought over is the level 3/4 7-hex past the ruin, so much of the map is about access to that spot from the split SZs, but the smaller perch on the right is strong and the sand perch by the glyph offers a spot unreachable by road which can be helpful. Jungle helps protect melee approaches and I especially like how much “breathing room” the road has with 10 hexes of level 2 road that don’t give up adjacent height. In general I find the pathing to be flexible and offer a lot of player choice.

And not to put too fine a point on it but aesthetically I think Arboretum has some of the clearest and prettiest SZs out there.

Thanks for your consideration!

 

[Foudzing]

I would like to nominate my own Arboretum to WoS. It uses 1 RotV, 1 RttFF, and 1 TJ, with 2 random glyphs.

While it was originally created for (but not submitted to) the ScapeCon I map contest, it has been used widely in the past year after getting updated in 2024.

Usage includes:
OHS 58
New England January 2025
MARS Philadelphia January 2025
AZ January 2025
MARS MD February 2025
AZ February 2025
SCWL Season 1
(Most of these events are linked here on heroscape.org).

It is also currently scheduled for use in:
NorCal May 2025 (they are using the SCWL map pool)
Wisconsin May 2025

Arboretum is a huge map but I have found that each section of the map sees play. The main height that gets fought over is the level 3/4 7-hex past the ruin, so much of the map is about access to that spot from the split SZs, but the smaller perch on the right is strong and the sand perch by the glyph offers a spot unreachable by road which can be helpful. Jungle helps protect melee approaches and I especially like how much “breathing room” the road has with 10 hexes of level 2 road that don’t give up adjacent height. In general I find the pathing to be flexible and offer a lot of player choice.

And not to put too fine a point on it but aesthetically I think Arboretum has some of the clearest and prettiest SZs out there.

Thanks for your consideration!

Arboterum by superfrog: I have played this map plenty now, I think it's a good map and yeah it's cool to have such a wide map, but not quite like best of the best, due to two big flaws I see:
1- Pulls left a lot
2- Level 4 doubles being too much of an obvious spot for some builds (dragons)
Both flaws being quite linked, and lead that in some low figures machups, only half of the map is played.
I vote no to induct

 

[Shurrig]

After using it in 3 tournaments in a row and singing its praises on the Heroscapers Discord, I have decided I would like to nominate Stoker by GameBear.

Stoker
View attachment 72144

Tournament use:
- Michigan Monthlies November 2023, March 2024, May 2024, and September 2024
- OST Season 3
- MARS DC AoA Pods

When looking into submitting this map I noticed that WoS doesn't have any Marvel maps, or any VW maps without BftU. I think Stoker uses Marvel's terrain very well to aesthetically pair with the castle walls and lava field, and the FotA and VW terrain sets are used to great effect to make for balanced and fun games in all sorts of matchups. I've also used this game for plenty pre-tournament practice games, and have yet to have a bad experience with it.

STOKER by @GameBear

I’ve likely played/watched more games on Stoker out of any map these past 6 months, mostly due to it showing up at several MARS events and it being a popular pick for several recent online events. It’s popular for a reason, it’s a very solid map. Stoker’s layout is quite unique for its footprint, and it utilizes the terrain from its sets rather effectively. At the maps best performance, the middle is very engaging and dynamic. The consecutive tiering of levels throughout the center makes for fun plays, and that line of level 4 lava was constantly fought over in the melee v melee matchups. This kind of jockeying for height is pretty common on good lava maps, and Stoker is no exception here.

There were issues that I noticed in my games that leave me feeling conflicted about my vote here though, most of which stem from development and the range vs melee matchup. From the jump, movement out of the right side of the SZ hits a wall when going towards the right edge. If you’re running 5 move figures, moving that way gets the frontmost units to the level 2 asphalt or road, but every unit behind them is forced onto the lava or gets stuck on the level 1. Because of this, the map tends to pull left towards the road, leaving a significant chunk of the map underused. I really only ever saw units go that way if the glyph was worth contesting, but in most of my games we just ignored them since they often felt quite far away from the action.

This map also really discourages range from coming forward, there were a couple times where I saw range utilize the 3-hex run of level 3 lava but that’s about as far as they would come into the map. Most of the time, range just sat in the SZ if they faced melee, and that’s not really fun for either player. I don’t hate that the 7-hex lava is in theory there for range to stage on neutral ground, but then you either have to push those units forward or back into your SZ at the end of the round to avoid risking lava damage. Most range units will just run back to their SZ, as much as I find that center to be very dynamic there is not enough there to pull range in.

This vote has left me feeling more conflicted than I initially expected. Stoker is a very good map and I wouldn’t be surprised if other judges vote differently, it just falls a bit short on the kind of excellency I look for when reviewing WoS maps.

I vote NO to induct.

I would like to nominate my own Vixen to WoS.

This map is actually my second attempt at this little-used set combo, after a short-lived poorly-received map called Krampus that has nearly been entirely erased from the internet. I created Vixen initially in October 2023 but revised it somewhat in March ahead of its use at Scape Summit (this was mainly to address some development concerns but also fixed some wonky SZ aesthetics).

Since then this map really has been a tournament staple, appearing in over 50 tournament matches across most of the major current scenes including MARS, Peoria, Utah, and SoCal (I did not choose it for any of those events). (All tournament usage linked here).

I think adding this set combo really gives WoS and TDs in general another helpful option. SotM has many good maps using road/castle, and more than a few using snow, but not many at all with lava (although another current nominee, Guts, does this as well). SotM/VW is an untenable (or at least uncomfortable) option, with no LoS blockers except the Hive between the sets. That makes the tundra set a natural addition, supplying the blockers that are sorely needed. And while Odin Wept is a fantastic map, this offers another master set option for those expansions in case your dungeon is needed elsewhere (and let’s be honest, it’s way easier to build )

I have enjoyed the somewhat challenging gameplay offered by this map, as most spots feel vulnerable in some way or another. But reception has seemed positive overall despite the challenges of playing on it, see a few thoughts from Scape Summit Attendees in the spoiler below:

Spoiler Alert!

Oh, and Maytrix says it’s one of his favorite maps ever

Vixen by @superfrog


Vixen has made quite a name for itself since its introduction, making sure to not be outshined by any other maps named after Santa’s reindeers. A fair amount of discussion has been shared on this map, but most of that talk has been centered around its aesthetics.

Aesthetics do matter for any map going through the WoS, but it should not be the end all be all of the critique. Does snow and lava on swamp make ecological sense? I don’t know, I’m not an ecologist. Judging a map solely on its appearance, in my opinion, would be doing a disservice to both the WoS and the nominee. For the record, I actually like the way Vixen looks, the color blocking is well considered and the aesthetics feel finely balanced.

Getting into the gameplay of the map, I do like that this map sort of forces range to play the middle. However, developing onto the level 2 is a scramble for a lot of armies as most of it is a minimum 4 walking spaces away from the SZ. This tends to leave a lot of units behind that first row caught somewhere in the middle of their development, and with a large chunk of the SZ in water, reaching that level 2 is even trickier. This often leads to armies feeling like they are stretched thin, as when they finally reach that level 2 they are almost immediately under threat of height attacks and ranged fire.

On top of that, the map can tend to feel cagey at times. The 6 and 4-hex glaciers create some narrow pathways through the middle that bump up against level 4 height, which makes it easy to screen and forces an uncomfortable game of chicken in certain matchups. This can lead to matches that snowball once a player has the center, and I just don’t find that kind of gameplay to be rewarding.

Overall, I think Vixen is solid, and certainly one of if not the strongest map using this terrain combination. It’s a good looking map too; once you get over the mental hurdle of what the terrain pieces are supposed to represent and instead view them as colors upon the mapmaker’s palette, it’s pretty clear that superfrog has done a good job of balancing the hues of his canvas. Unfortunately, I find it to be just a bit too difficult to maintain a steady flow of quality gameplay for most armies, and for that reason I cannot give it a yes vote today.

I vote NO to induct.

 

[Shurrig]

On a lighter note, I would like to nominate Sunset Run by @Dunedain for WoS's consideration. It is quite new, but I think given it's recent fanfare it is worthy of this nomination.

Played at:
-MARS DC Winter Classic 2025
-COM 8
-New England Eastern Mass April 2025
-Previous version used at Hexicon III

I love how uniquely different this map plays from Canary, WoS's other BftUx2 TJ map. most of the double jungle/shadow spaces are reserved to the level 1 which offers lots of safe development spots in exchange for a slightly riskier middle. I think I prefer that though, as the central shadow pool is still interesting but much easier to counter. Height's well placed, aesthetics are great, my biggest issue with the original version was how bumpy the path to the rock-side glyph was and how the 3-hex run of level 0 shadow (originally where there is now that 3-hex run of water) was never getting utilized. This version fixes both of those issues, making a map that was already great in my mind absolutely stellar now. Sunset run is without a doubt an excellent map and I'm looking forward to hearing what the other judges have to say.

I vote YES to induct!

 

[MegaSilver]

FWIW I would have nominated the previous version from HexiCon except for the fact he made a newer one, so I held off. Great nomination!

 

[Shurrig]

Gonna throw down a couple more reviews while I'm at it.

I nominate Withering Pines by @Flash_19 for WoS.

Withering Pines by @Flash_19

I'm going to give a quick vote on Withering Pines, unfortunately it finds itself in a bit of an awkward predicament here. It is one of three RotV/RttFF/VW maps that have been nominated recently, and I'm just not sure it meets the same level of gameplay as those other maps.

In my games I did not see the road being all that useful. The figures on the edge of the SZ are pretty cut off from it, and it felt as though units that used the road were not typically able to vault themselves into positions that were much better than a position on a similar map that didn’t have road. This isn’t entirely the road’s fault though, as I find that those central level 3 and 4 rock sections really kneecap the map from playing as dynamic as the other lava/road maps. Armies are typically funneling that way, so if you gain a foothold of one or both section there is not much incentive to hop off. I also agree with superfrog that the slight asymmetry throws off development in an unfun way and that the sides feel largely out of play (given how strong that center is).

It’s a bunch of tiny cuts that pile up for me with Withering Pines. Considering all those gameplay issues, as well as the added squeeze from other maps using the same terrain combination, Withering Pines falls short for me.

I vote NO to induct.

I'd like to nominate Olympus by RainyDays.

View attachment 73471

It featured heavily at SAScon, and I think on reflection was the best map there. Please don't use the Nilf glyph on it. Even with that being a factor in some games, it felt quite fun and dynamic in each game, the road and LOS blockers both feel well optimized, good development, and I think did a good job in balancing the melee vs range dynamic.

It's been featured in 2 online tournaments and 5 in person tournaments as well as SAScon: https://heroscape.org/map/view/?HeroscapeMap=287

Olympus by @RainyDays

Onto the other aforementioned RotV/RttFF/VW map, Olympus has been another popular map as of recent. It uses the same sets as my map, Stechavan, but it plays so uniquely different that I don’t think I’d have a huge problem including both of them in the same tournament map pool.

RainyDays does an excellent job of creating 3 distinct lanes of play: the lower sand side, the central road, and the upper lava/rock edge. In a lot of ways, it shares many parallels to another WoS map, Venom, both have many areas of play that allow for different styles of gameplay and create interesting choices midgame. All three areas feel equally dynamic and in play for most armies, in large part due to how effective that road is. In all my games, play spread well throughout the map, glyphs were contested often, and most notably, players often wanted to stay on the lava at the end of rounds. I love when maps force that decision, and Olympus does it better than most I’ve seen.

I’m happy to see so many maps using this terrain combination recently, road and lava should make for fast and interesting gameplay, and Olympus has all of that in spades. This one’s an easy vote for me.

I vote YES to induct.

 

[Foudzing]

Stoker by Gamebear: Very interesting map that plays wider than what it looks, but I'll mostly double down on what my colleagues said, the right side and center are weird to develop, well center if you can go past that lava plateau in one go that's great but if you can't not great at all, also left side provides road and more efficient los blocking than right. That leads that if you play melee, or if you have range disadvantage you'll devellop a lot more left aaaand if you play range you want to try to take of that hard to devellop right side of yoru opponnnent so you'l devellop left side aswell. Games were a bit different than on other more conventional maps but they all played kinda the same.
Also side note, not super important but I didn't like much the ability to go on top level of the map in one move for 6 move flyers (5 move if single spaced) like a dragon turn 1 can like plump on there and just ensure himself height vs double hexers with just 1 same level spot remaining. Just too much of an obvious play and too strong of a spot.

NO to induct.

Withering Pines by Flash_19 Well to me Withering Pines do things way differently than Olympus or Stechavan, so no problem here. Like Olympus, I'd say this is a map very sightly on the range favoring side, mostly due to the single hex perches that some ranged figures can really abuse, but nothing concerning. I do think the road is more useful than on Olympus and the Ruins denying vision to the glyphs is actualllly a cool anti-range feature I'd like to see more off (you already have this feature on some maps like Quasacht Playground, Yngwild Pass, Platypus, Aeon etc...), those kind of walls cutting the map force early decision and I do like that a lot. Whitering Pines really looks like a lava Aeon, very similai layout but actually very diffirent playstyle due to the lava and the amount of single perches.
From what I watched and played on Withering Pines, it is a very dynamic map that rewards good decisions.

YES to induct

 

[superfrog]

Withering Pines and Stoker have both received 2 downvotes and are not inducted.

Dredgewood Forest has received 4 upvotes and is inducted as WoS map #27

 

[UtahScott]

Withering Pines and Stoker have both received 2 downvotes and are not inducted.

Dredgewood Forest has received 4 upvotes and is inducted as WoS map #27

Has the OP hit the character limit, or do we have to wait (for dok) to update?

 

[superfrog]

I will be updating later today hopefully

 

[Scapemage]

Dredgewood Forest is incorrectly credited to Ulysses in the display thread!

This map is cool! We tried it in New England last month and quite enjoyed it. Congratulations!

 

[superfrog]

A belated congratulations to @Flash_19, Frostmire is WoS map #28!

 

[superfrog]

I’d like to nominate Dance of the Dryads for reconsideration.

I supported its initial inclusion in WoS but I’ve grown unsure over the past few years. I think the inductions of Odin Wept and Stechavan have pushed it out of its set-usage niches (it was originally the most accessible lava/road map and the only 1-dungeon/2-expansion map).

Particularly I have found that the safe level 2 going left is too obvious for many armies, the road going right is perhaps overly bumpy, the level 0 lava is sometimes problematic, and the shadow feels underutilized for a dungeon map.

I’m not personally ready to vote it out at the moment but I do want us to take a closer look officially as a group.

 

[Nomad]

I am not a WoS judge. My opinion doesn't count, so take it for what it is worth. Dance of the Dryads is a good map and have included it tournaments multiple times, but it is not one I will build for a competitive tournament in the future. I was able to Zelrig bomb my opponent's start zone on OM#1 in round 1 a couple of years ago. Yes, I rolled a lucky 3 for 3, but the game was essentially over at that moment. I have had many great games on the map. But I would agree with superfrog's suggestion for reconsideration.

 

[superfrog]

Thanks for sharing! I too have had some great games on DotD. Also some clunkers. Will be glad to play it more and see what happens!

 

[Foudzing]

I won't cast a vote for now but my main thought on DotD is that it's very hit or miss.

 

[Foudzing]

Rocky Foundations by Shurrig: Not a bad map, but just a bit too tight for my taste, everything is very close to each other, range has also very few interesting spots to fight for and has to rely on some goodol startzone camping, especially with the stratzone layout being beneficial for range. Also I don't really like that the higher point are 5 move fly away from the starzone and that an aura/ranged figure placed there covers a big portion of the map. No to induct.

 

[superfrog]

Ceremony by Shurrig

I have played several AoA-master-set maps and even designed a few myself. With my mapmaker hat on (not my TD hat on), my “problem” has always been that AoA maps feel like they’re not bringing anything new to the table that RotV maps couldn’t. And with RotV being a bit larger, I never really wanted to turn to AoA after my initial few attempts. LoV has new aesthetics, BftW combos nicely with other sets, AoA just seemed somewhat like an ugly duckling. I think some AoA remakes of existing maps reinforced that preconception, that AoA maps would always be knockoffs.

So, with that context, I consider Ceremony to be a bit of a triumph: it’s an AoA map that can’t be approximated or substituted with an RotV set. The pillars are central to the concept of the map and the reason it works so well. The central level 3 plateau is strong, as are the level 4 perches, and the pillars help to limit both the pathing and the LoS of the center region. But there’s enough level 2 through the map to provide development and some accessible even-ground shots across the center.

Foudzing notes the water is irrelevant, which it is, but I could imagine it coming up it a game where the glyphs drew a lot of attention (throw a figure down onto water to limit movement or grab an extra attack).

So. Ceremony uses only one set and uses it to great effect. I hope to see more maps with new sets try to make their mark by similarly leaning into the unique strengths of the new sets (to the extent that they *have* strengths……)

to induct