The Book of Yellow Lantern (Thaal Sinestro)

[IAmBatman]

Re: Sinestro - Design Phase

Please do! I don't anticipate having any time to playtest anything until ... July?

 

[Griffin]

Re: Sinestro - Design Phase

I will playtest Sin and BM tonight then.

~ Griffin, when woot just isn't enough...

 

[Griffin]

Re: Sinestro - Design Phase

Bats, why is Sin an Insurgent? Shouldn't he be something more sinister or commanding? Does Sin really need to be boosted by means of intimidation from Arkillo? I don't like the power creep on that nor do I like the theme at all...

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Sinestro - Design Phase

Because Sinestro is yellow lantern corps. If Arkillo's power is boosting YLC members, and we have ... I dunno ... about five of them we might ever, ever make, then Sinestro should be an Insurgent.
Sinestro is an Insurgent either way, IMO, but if you find Arkillo's power too powerful, you should comment on that power over there.

 

[Griffin]

Re: Sinestro - Design Phase

Actually, after playing with Sin tonight, I can see where the Insurgent bonus could possibly give Sinestro a more of a reason to use his normal attack... possibly. So I am good now. More on my playtests later though.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Sinestro - Design Phase

Look forward to it. From what you were saying on the phone, it's sounding like bumping him down to Yellow Power Battery 4 might be the way to go to keep his cost from being way over 380.

 

[Griffin]

Re: Sinestro - Design Phase

C3G PLAY TEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT SINESTRO

- Heavy Hitter or Mid-Level Hero/ Does it pass? NO, not at 380

Out of 9 tests, Sinestro only lost one, and that was due to a D20 roll with Omega Effect. As he is, Sinestro IMO is worth 430 points.

Spoiler Alert!

TEST 1
Map: Platforms 5 and 6
Units: Sinestro VS Hulk
Sinestro wins with 2 wounds and 1 Power Battery (PB).

Sinestro wins with 3 wounds and 1 Power Battery (PB).

TEST 2
Map: Platforms 5 and 6
Units: Sinestro VS Darkseid
Sinestro wins with 1 wound and 2 Power Batteries (PB).

Darkseid wins with 4 wounds and Sinestro had 4 Power Batteries (PB). DS rolled a 20 on his Omega Effect.

TEST 3
Map: Platforms 5 and 6
Units: Sinestro VS Superman
Sinestro wins with 2 wounds and 1 Power Battery (PB).

Sinestro wins with 3 wounds and 4 Power Batteries (PB).
TEST 4
Map: Platforms 5 and 6
Units: Sinestro VS Green Lantern (Hal)
Sinestro wins with 2 wounds and 1 Power Battery (PB).

Sinestro wins with 3 wounds and 2 Power Batteries (PB).

TEST 5
Map: Platforms 5 and 6
Units: Sinestro VS Thor
Sinestro wins with 3 wounds and 1 Power Battery (PB). Those 3 wounds came from Thor's Thunder Strike too..

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​

- Heavy Hitter or Mid-Level Hero/ Does it pass? YES, to get him at 380 or 390

All I did was reduce his Power Battery to 4 and these tests were much closer.

Spoiler Alert!

TEST 1
Map: Platforms 5 and 6
Units: Sinestro VS Hulk
Sinestro wins with 3 wounds and 0 Power Batteries (PB).

Hulk wins with 6 wounds and O Power Batteries on Sinestro (PB).

TEST 2
Map: Platforms 5 and 6
Units: Sinestro VS Darkseid
Sinestro wins with 3 wounds and 0 Power Batteries (PB).

Darkseid wins with 6 wounds and 0 Power Batteries (PB) on Sinestro.

TEST 3
Map: Platforms 5 and 6
Units: Sinestro VS Superman
Sinestro wins with 2 wounds and 0 Power Batteries (PB).

Sinestro wins with 3 wounds and 1 Power Battery (PB).
TEST 4
Map: Platforms 5 and 6
Units: Sinestro VS Green Lantern (Hal)
Sinestro wins with 3 wounds and 0 Power Batteries (PB), GL had 0 PB when he died.

Green Lantern wins with 3 wounds and 1 PB, Sinestro had 0 PB when he died.



TEST 5
Map: Platforms 5 and 6
Units: Sinestro VS Thor
Thor wins with 7 wounds and 0 Power Batteries (PB) on Sinestro.

Thor wins with 6 wounds and 0 Power Batteries (PB) on Sinestro.

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​

- Squad / Does it pass? YES
Map: Platforms 5 and 6
Units: Sinestro VS Cops x6

Spoiler Alert!

Cops win with 2 squads left.

Sinestro had height the entire time, and he used his SA but never doubled it, because he needed his high defense to avoid all of the pot shots. Finally, after 3 wounds, he began using his Shields to avoid two skull attacks, but eventually, a single skulled attack snuck in there on a DW roll.

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​

- Army Test/ Does it pass? YES at 380 or 390
Map: Platforms 5 and 6
Units: Sinestro and Magneto (700) VS Superman and Wonder Woman (700)

Spoiler Alert!

Superman and Magneto take height, but Supes is higher. Then Mags moves up to even ground to put one wound on Supers. Then WW moves to the ladder behind Superman using him as a shield to block engagement, then she lassos Magneto and puts him underneath her on the ladder and hits him for 3 wounds. Wonder Woman is now in a position where Magneto is lassoed underneath, and Superman is blocking her above, so Sinestro will not be able to engage her and save Magneto.
Sinestro moves up and gives Superman a total of 5 wounds by doubling his SA! Then WW kills Magneto. Next round. Sinestro engages WW on the ladder where Magneto use to be, and gives her 3 wounds. Then Superman goes beneath Sin on the ladder and rolls 4 skulls, Sinestro blocks one and takes 3 wounds. Sinestro then kills Superman with his doubling SA. WW hits Sin but he uses a Power Shield to avoid it. Then Sin hits her back with 2 wounds. WW then hits again for 6 skulls! Sinestro avoids it with his last shield. Next round, anything can happen... both WW and Sin are one away from death.... WW has height.... Sinestro is all out of Shileds.... Sinestro get initiative and kills WW with his Special Attack.

Sinestro wins with 3 wounds and 0 PBs.

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​

- Army Test/ Does it pass? YES, Very close game, With Sinestro and Darkseid pulling out all of the stops. I would have to pass Sinestro at 390
Map: Platforms 5 and 6
Units: Sinestro, Darkseid, and Ironman (1000) VS Green Lantern,Flash, and Superman(1000)

Spoiler Alert!

Superman takes a platform, Sinestro takes the other platform. GL moves to the top of the Subway entrance. Darkseid advances on the platform, while Flash takes the tunnel. DS hits Superman with the OE, then Flash engages DS and gives him a wound with his SA. Sinestro scares the crap out of flash with 3 wounds using his force of fear and DS's imposing presence to bring the crimson crusader down to a defense of 2, luckily flash was on a Shadow tile. Sinestro goes for the kill early on but Flash vanishes through the subway tunnel hiding in the shadow all the way. Flash then sneaks up on Ironman and gives him 3 wounds. Then Ironman takes height but misses the Flash. GL on height attacks DS for 4 total wounds! Then Darkseid matches GL's height but hits Superman again with the OE for 3 more wounds. Ouuch! Superman flies up and punches DS for another wound. Then Sinestro advances up and shoots at Superman while engaged with Darkseid for the kill. GL, charges and kills Darkseid, then Sinestro goes head to head with Hal. They get each other down to 3 wounds and no power batteries, but Sinestro had that great SA of 6 to finish the job. Then Flash kills Iron man, while Sinestro tries to kill him but he only scared Flash into the shadows of the tunnels. Flash continued to use the shadows to boost his defense and kept hitting those blanks until it was finally his turn (because Hal lost the entire round for them by dying). Then with one big punch of 5 with 2 skulls, the tired Sinestro took a swan dive into the subway station's shadows...

Flash wins with 3 wounds.

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​

- Army Test/ Does it pass? YES, still passes at 390
Map: Platforms 5 and 6
Units: Sinestro and Darkseid VS Batman, Huntress, IronMan, and Iceman

Spoiler Alert!

Sinestro takes the top height, IronMan moves up and attacks twice giving Sin 2 total wounds. Then Sinestro kills Ironman by doubling his SA. Iceman moves up and attacks, giving Sinestro one more wound, then Sinestro kills Iceman by doubling his SA. Batman advances, rolls a 3 skull batarang so Sinestro burns a PB. Then sinestro attacks Batman for 3 wounds, but does not double his attack. Then batman swings up on height, punches sinestro for one skull, Sin rolls defense and fails, and down goes Sinestro. Batman goes after DS and hits him for one wound with a batarang. DS tries his OE, but fails taking his second wound. Batman attacks again, but fails. Then DS takes a wound from leaving engagement and hides to avoid the Evasive Strike, but fails his OE and takes now his 4th wound. batman moves up again to attack butfails, then DS punches him out for the kill. Huntress runs up using the tunnel, then DS unleashes his OE for 3 wounds on Huntress. Huntress gets into position and puts two more wounds on DS with her double SA of 5, then DS engages her and kills her.

Darkseid wins with 6 wounds. close game.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Sinestro - Design Phase

Yep, sounds like the decrease to 4 Power Batteries is the way to go. I'm convinced and making the change on the first post.

 

[Griffin]

Re: Sinestro - Design Phase

Look forward to it. From what you were saying on the phone, it's sounding like bumping him down to Yellow Power Battery 4 might be the way to go to keep his cost from being way over 380.

Exactly. I know how much we want those batteries to feel extremely powerful, I know I do, and part of that feeling is just seeing it on the card, however, after playing nearly 100 one on one matches with GL or Sinestro, I am telling ya

THE POWER BATTERY IS THE MOST POWERFUL WEAPON IN SUPERSCAPE!!

Seriously though, it is extremely powerful, and each marker is essentially a complete bypass to soooooo many unit's powerful attack, special or normal, that each marker may actually be worth about 40 points or so. In Sin's case, it does that and/or it allows up to a potential of doubling his special attack of 6 4 or 5 times, depending on how many power batteries we give him. In case I haven't said it yet, I am in favor of him having a power battery of 4! That is the only change I want to see on the front page.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Sinestro - Design Phase

Well then look at the front page, lol.
And, yeah, it's the most powerful weapon in the DCU, so I'm happy it's the most powerful weapon in Scape too. (Though I'd argue Thor's Hammer is right up there ...).

 

[A3n]

Re: Sinestro - Design Phase

Sinestro looks really good IAB, I now want a Sinestro clix .

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Sinestro - Design Phase

I don't think the blue suit one is that expensive!
Thanks, btw. I'm happy with where we've got him. Once Griff finishes the initial playtest, I'm happy to move him to the playtesting phase.

 

[A3n]

Re: Sinestro - Design Phase

I don't think the blue suit one is that expensive!
Thanks, btw. I'm happy with where we've got him. Once Griff finishes the initial playtest, I'm happy to move him to the playtesting phase send it to the ERB.

Fixed.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Sinestro - Design Phase

Touce! Thanks for the reminder and for keeping me on task.
By the way, for those interested, I've put thread updates in the first post. Hopefully this is a template for how we can all do it.

 

[A3n]

Re: Sinestro - Design Phase

Touce! Thanks for the reminder and for keeping me on task.
By the way, for those interested, I've put thread updates in the first post. Hopefully this is a template for how we can all do it.

That's a little different to how I have been doing it. Hmmm.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Sinestro - Design Phase

Yeah - remember that idea Whitestuff had about doing a thread summary every once in a while to help catch people up on the discussion? That's what I was going for.

 

[Griffin]

Re: Sinestro - Design Phase

Yeah - remember that idea Whitestuff had about doing a thread summary every once in a while to help catch people up on the discussion? That's what I was going for.

A3n has been doing that, this is just your way of trying to cover up the fact that you initially forgot.

 

[Griffin]

Re: Sinestro - Design Phase

Hmmmm.... I wonder where I put that playtest sheet. I'll just go to the front page and I can... oh....

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Sinestro - Design Phase

Yeah - remember that idea Whitestuff had about doing a thread summary every once in a while to help catch people up on the discussion? That's what I was going for.

A3n has been doing that, this is just your way of trying to cover up the fact that you initially forgot.

I didn't forget. We said we would do it weekly. Also, frankly, there's been very little need for updating in this thread thus far.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Sinestro - Design Phase

It's been posted, what, an hour? lol
If you're that desperate to have it on the front page, you have the power.

 

[Griffin]

Re: Sinestro - Design Phase

My playtest has been updated.

OK, I am done playtesting and picking on Bats for the day. Time to get some rest. Peace.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Sinestro - Design Phase

Hmm ... interesting update. Sounds like Sinestro is much better against other heroes than against squads. Does that adjust your thinking on his cost at all?

 

[Griffin]

Re: Sinestro - Design Phase

Hmm ... interesting update. Sounds like Sinestro is much better against other heroes than against squads. Does that adjust your thinking on his cost at all?

Well, he took out 4 out of 6 squads worth of Cops, I think that is pretty darn good. I mean they are constantly rolling little attacks, so there is no reason for him to use his Shield, and there is no good reason to double his SA because he needs those Markers to boost his defense to stay protected. So basically he is killing one cop each turn, and they are attacking with very little attacks of 3 each turn waiting for him to whiff. So once he has whiffed a couple of times, he has to start using shields to avoid the attacks of two skulls (just to be safe), and that is when it gets dangerous for him, when his defense dice start to dwindle. I think he did great, and certainly behaved like a 380 figure, they just can't all be Superman (who has a lot of value tied into his awesome resistance to squad attacks).

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Sinestro - Design Phase

True, but Superman also holds up very well to mid level heroes and heavy hitters for his point cost - he earns his 400 points all around.
I think Sinestro certainly did well against the squads, but he did fall after only killing 260 points worth of a squad that's not particularly known for its hero killing prowess. I know we're used to heroes getting owned by squads in squadscape and all, and I certainly don't expect him to be killing 380 points every time, but I do wonder if his clearly performing worse against squads than heavy hitters diminishes his value any.

 

[Griffin]

Re: Sinestro - Design Phase

True, but Superman also holds up very well to mid level heroes and heavy hitters for his point cost - he earns his 400 points all around.
I think Sinestro certainly did well against the squads, but he did fall after only killing 260 points worth of a squad that's not particularly known for its hero killing prowess. I know we're used to heroes getting owned by squads in squadscape and all, and I certainly don't expect him to be killing 380 points every time, but I do wonder if his clearly performing worse against squads than heavy hitters diminishes his value any.

Well it did make me reconsider the 390 mark if that is what you are asking. But I think 380 is at least the basement for this guy. Just look at how well he did in my most recent army test (390 looks good for him IMO). Magneto failed him as an ally, and he pretty much took on Superman and WW all by himself, using Magneto as somewhat of a sacrificial lamb of course.