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The Book of Wildcat

Scapemage

Scapemage

From less than zero to Hero!
The Book of Wildcat

C3G DC SUPER SECRET EXCLUSIVE 75
PILLARS OF SOCIETY

C3G_Wildcat_comic.png

Comic PDF
C3G_Wildcat_mini.png

Mini PDF

The figure used for this unit is a Heroclix figure from the Origins set.
Its model number and name are #013, #014, and #015 / Wildcat.​

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Character Bio - Inspired by stories of Green Lantern from a young age, Ted Grant's father trained him in basic boxing skills. After saving former prize fighter Mike Muldoon from a group of thugs at his warehouse job, Grant trained with Muldoon and both made new names for themselves in the boxing scene. At the height of his career, Wildcat served as a core member of the Justice Society of America. After retiring from boxing, he took to coaching, training Batman, Black Canary, and Starman in boxing.
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-Rulings and Clarifications-
  • N/A
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-Combinations and Synergies-

Incoming Synergy:
Outgoing Synergy:
  • Fighters and Protégés without the Super Strength special power can be chosen for Wildcat's Fight Coach special power.
Immunities, Benefits, and Weaknesses:
  • N/A
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-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-

  • Wildcat's effectiveness depends heavily on your opponent's army. Against lower-class figures, The Ol' One Two won't have much use since Wildcat's 5 attack will usually wound them. On the other hand, Rope-A-Dope is most useful for defensive wounds against lower-class figures. Against higher-class figures, Rope-A-Dope will see little usage, but The Ol' One Two allows Wildcat to bypass defensive powers or high base stats against characters like Luke Cage and Superman.
  • Justice Society Faction Strategy

-Heroscapers Community Contributions-

 
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Re: The Book of Wildcat (Design Phase)

NAME = WILDCAT
SECRET IDENTITY = TED GRANT

SPECIES = METAHUMAN
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = MYSTERY MAN
PERSONALITY = FIERCE
SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 9
MOVE = 5
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 5
DEFENSE = 3
POINTS = 240

FIGHT COACH
At the start of the game, choose a Fighter or Protégé figure you control without the Super Strength special power to be Wildcat's Trainee. For the entire game, Wildcat's Trainee may re-roll any blanks rolled when attacking an adjacent figure with a normal attack, even after Wildcat is destroyed.

THE OL' ONE-TWO
If Wildcat does not inflict one or more wounds when attacking an opponent's adjacent figure with his normal attack, Wildcat may attack that figure one additional time, rolling exactly 2 attack dice. The chosen figure cannot roll any defense dice against this additional attack.

ROPE-A-DOPE
If Wildcat defends against an adjacent normal attack and does not receive a wound, you may roll an unblockable attack die against the attacking figure.


Second version:
Spoiler Alert!

First Version:
Spoiler Alert!
 
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Re: The Book of Wildcat (Design Phase)

Comic art:
Spoiler Alert!


Background:
Spoiler Alert!
 
Re: The Book of Wildcat (Design Phase)

Pulled from Last Chance Workshop. This design has been simmering for quite some time, but the last power is my biggest concern right now. If people are happy with Surgical Strike, that's excellent, but if not, I am still thinking about options.

Scapemage said:
Now that Question is beginning to progress through playtesting and I have done some playtesting for other designs of my own, I am confident in beginning Wildcat's thread. I wanted to bring up a few more thoughts to see if there are any quick opinions here before starting it up later tonight or tomorrow.

Firstly, some research has found that rope-a-dope (with hyphens) is a real term:
Google said:
Rope-a-dope – "a boxing tactic of pretending to be trapped against the ropes, goading an opponent to throw tiring ineffective punches."
Click to expand...

Secondly, I've changed him to a Mystery Man, although I would be ultimately perfectly happy with Fighter or Crime Fighter if we think him receiving the JSA synergy is too strong and/or want him to have a place in other armies outside JSA.

Finally, the real thing I would like some opinions on is what to do with the last power. I am proposing some options:

1) Keep Fists of Fury as it, but make it a special attack (with different name)
2) Surgical Strike
3) Invent a new power entirely

I don't really think Wildcat should have Close Combat Expert. He's often shown getting pretty roughed up and 9 lives with an auto-shield is concerning despite the low defense.
Click to expand...
 
Re: The Book of Wildcat (Design Phase)

Not a fan of Surgical Strike. Doesn't feel like a boxer to me in the same way FoF does. Quite frankly, I think we should be fine with regular Fists of Fury here - it feels like a boxer, he was the guy who trained Black Canary, the competitive guys didn't worry about Black Bat (they considered her strong and a powerful beneficiary of attack boosts, but not problematic) and this guy's strongly factional on top of that. There's such a thing as being over-cautious.
 
Re: The Book of Wildcat (Design Phase)

Not really feeling Surgical Strike. Just doesn't seem to fit. He's not a precision fighter, he's a blunt force damage guy. Fist of Fury is only really an issue at 5 base attack. With all the boosters these days he's going to be priced with Cappy and Star-Lord since he fits there with his class and personality. Then with height he's 5+1+1+1= 8 attack and getting three skulls there is a pretty safe bet.

Since Fist of Fury specifically says skulls rolled could we lower his base attack and give him auto skulls somewhere to get him back to the same damage output.

Scapemage said:
NAME = WILDCAT
SECRET IDENTITY = TED GRANT

SPECIES = METAHUMAN
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = MYSTERY MAN
PERSONALITY = FIERCE
SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 9
MOVE = 5
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 3
DEFENSE = 3
POINTS = 210?

FIGHT COACH
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and instead of taking a turn with Wildcat, you may take a turn with any Protege or Mystery Man you control within 4 clear sight spaces of Wildcat, Wildcat may be this figure. Figures taking a turn with Fight Coach add one automatic skull to whatever is rolled when attacking with a normal attack.

ROPE A DOPE SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack Special.
Choose a figure to attack and roll 3 attack dice. If the defending figure does not receive any wounds from this attack, Wildcat may attack that figure one additional time, rolling 2 attack dice. The chosen figure cannot roll any defense dice against this additional attack.

FISTS OF FURY
If Wildcat rolls at least 3 skulls with his normal attack, Wildcat may attack again with his normal attack. Wildcat may continue attacking with his normal attack until Wildcat rolls fewer than 3 skulls. Wildcat cannot attack more than four times in a single turn.
Click to expand...

So here 3 attack dice plus an auto skull = same damage as 5 attack on average but since there are only 3 dice at base attack it reduces the number of skulls you can roll.

So now even with the boost He's at most rolling 6 dice which is a 50% chance or rolling 3 skulls.


Also a side note I just realized that FIST OF FURY is not limited to Adjacent Attacks. See post in Black Bat's thread.

@Tornado, since it was you that has convinced me this is something we need to look at, do you think this helps or not.



The main problem I have is that will the above combo drive his price to much away from his desired thematic build.
 
Re: The Book of Wildcat (Design Phase)

*edit* misread the bonding power.

I agree that Surgical Strike from Hush seems like an odd thematic power for him. I do like the use of a boxing term for his SA, seems like a great fit, but I do think we need to clarify what happens when Spider Man swings away after the first attack.
 
Re: The Book of Wildcat (Design Phase)

3 attack die needing 3 rolled skulls to trigger additional attack kind of kills the power when not being boosted by CA & SL. What if he just got a new power where it only required 2 rolled skulls to trigger another attack, then gave him the 3 base attack and auto-skull option?
 
Re: The Book of Wildcat (Design Phase)

Oh, I'm also not sure the Auto-skull for Mystery Men & Protege's is really needed. Power Girl can already roll 8 attack dice when engaged, does she really need an auto-skull? Super Man only rolls 5 attack dice but can count blanks as skulls. GL can roll 7 attack die when he uses a marker. Seems odd that Wildcat is 'coaching up' some of his synergy options on how to fight when they can already bring the pain.
 
Re: The Book of Wildcat (Design Phase)

Yodaking said:
3 attack die needing 3 rolled skulls to trigger additional attack kind of kills the power when not being boosted by CA & SL. What if he just got a new power where it only required 2 rolled skulls to trigger another attack, then gave him the 3 base attack and auto-skull option?
Click to expand...
That power kind of already exists:


C3G_RedArrow_mini.jpg
 
Re: The Book of Wildcat (Design Phase)

Yodaking said:
Oh, I'm also not sure the Auto-skull for Mystery Men & Protege's is really needed. Power Girl can already roll 8 attack dice when engaged, does she really need an auto-skull? Super Man only rolls 5 attack dice but can count blanks as skulls. GL can roll 7 attack die when he uses a marker. Seems odd that Wildcat is 'coaching up' some of his synergy options on how to fight when they can already bring the pain.
Click to expand...

What else would he do? Coaching seems to be his thing. You loose that, and he's just a fighter with one of the crappiest OM flexibility powers in the game.
 
Re: The Book of Wildcat (Design Phase)

Just make a SA version of FoF and give it a boxing name. Easy peasy. :)
 
Re: The Book of Wildcat (Design Phase)

For Fight Coach, we could always make it something to help the consistency of rolls, not necessary boost them. Count a blank as a skull or something. Raise the floor, not the ceiling.

Like the design overall. I think I'd like his Fight Coach power to work with Fighters, Proteges, and Vigilantes. Leave him a Mystery Man and let him get synergy passively from that. Did he ever really "coach" his peers?

I like the idea of a rope-a-dope power, but dont think the SA fits, mechanically. It's a defensive strategy. Something like "JAB & CROSS" or "THE OL' ONE-TWO" fits the power better.

I agree we should seeing for the fences with Fists of Fury here, and see where it goes. Tone it down if necessary.

Big fan of Wildcat, he's long overdue. Tough part is going to jam in all the cool stuff and make sure he's still feeling appropriately street level.
 
Re: The Book of Wildcat (Design Phase)

Tornado said:
Just make a SA version of FoF and give it a boxing name. Easy peasy. :)
Click to expand...


I'd say just make his Rope-a-dope power a normal attack and let it be boosted since it only works if he fails to inflict a wound and then give him something different in place of Fist of Fury.
 
Re: The Book of Wildcat (Design Phase)

johnny139 said:
For Fight Coach, we could always make it something to help the consistency of rolls, not necessary boost them. Count a blank as a skull or something. Raise the floor, not the ceiling.

Like the design overall. I think I'd like his Fight Coach power to work with Fighters, Proteges, and Vigilantes. Leave him a Mystery Man and let him get synergy passively from that. Did he ever really "coach" his peers?

I like the idea of a rope-a-dope power, but dont think the SA fits, mechanically. It's a defensive strategy. Something like "JAB & CROSS" or "THE OL' ONE-TWO" fits the power better.

I agree we should seeing for the fences with Fists of Fury here, and see where it goes. Tone it down if necessary.

Big fan of Wildcat, he's long overdue. Tough part is going to jam in all the cool stuff and make sure he's still feeling appropriately street level.
Click to expand...




Good point on the defensive strategy of ROPE-A-DOPE...so what about this combo...




THE OL' ONE-TWO
When Wildcat attacks an adjacent figure with his normal attack, if the defending figure does not receive any wounds from this attack, Wildcat may attack that figure one additional time, rolling 2 attack dice. The chosen figure cannot roll any defense dice against this additional attack.


Rope-A-Dope
If Wildcat inflicts defends against an adjacent normal attack and does not receive a wound, roll an unblockable attack die against the attacking figure (or just an auto wound).
 
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Re: The Book of Wildcat (Design Phase)

An Attack of 5 vs no defence is brutal... that needs to be toned down, either remove the attack boost or change no defence to something like -2.
 
Re: The Book of Wildcat (Design Phase)

Lazy Orang said:
Yodaking said:
Oh, I'm also not sure the Auto-skull for Mystery Men & Protege's is really needed. Power Girl can already roll 8 attack dice when engaged, does she really need an auto-skull? Super Man only rolls 5 attack dice but can count blanks as skulls. GL can roll 7 attack die when he uses a marker. Seems odd that Wildcat is 'coaching up' some of his synergy options on how to fight when they can already bring the pain.
Click to expand...

What else would he do? Coaching seems to be his thing. You loose that, and he's just a fighter with one of the crappiest OM flexibility powers in the game.
Click to expand...

IDK, with 700+ cards in the bank I would like to think we figured out a few ways to make figures useful beyond adding auto-skulls to 8 attack dice allies.

I know it's easy for people to put boxers into a box labeled "dumb guy who punches people" but boxers actually train and utilize defense and footwork as well, and tactics can play a bigger roll than brute strength in who becomes the champ. Ali, who created and named the rope-a-dope strategy in his fight with George Foreman, was not favored to win that fight against the bigger and stronger Foreman but he won the fight by out smarting him. Their are champs like Mike Tyson who are dumb brutes who over power their opponents with pure force, but that is not the only way one can rise to the top.

Maybe Wildcat can teach footwork (ie. free move and/or disengage), or teach them to protect themselves better from punches/kicks (ie. defense vs. melee attacks). Also generally speaking you teach those less skilled that you, teaching Superman and Power Girl how to fight seems off to me. I'd rather see him 'coaching up' sidekicks/rookies/students or someone similarly at the start of their super hero careers.

And since we are talking about Rope-a-dope for a power name, everyone should be aware that the strategy entails letting your opponent tire themselves out beating on you but not doing any real damage. Then once they have exhausted themselves punching into your defensive stance, you turn on the offense and take advantage of their tired arms inability to block effectively to beat them down. If I were to construct a Rope-a-Dope power based on theme for heroscape, it would be something along these lines:

ROPE-A-DOPE
If their are one or more unrevealed Order Markers on this card, when Wildcat is attacked by an adjacent opponent's normal attack, add one shield to his defense roll. If their is a revealed Order Marker on this card, and no unrevealed Order Markers, when Wildcat attacks an adjacent opponent's figure with a normal attack, you may treat one shield or blank rolled as a rolled skull.

Combine that with FoF and after playing defense on OM1 & 2, he then unleashes some rapid fire normal attacks (base attack 4?) on OM3 each round. If you went the 'footwork' idea for his coaching power, this is what the card could look like.

NAME = WILDCAT
SECRET IDENTITY = TED GRANT

SPECIES = METAHUMAN
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = MYSTERY MAN
PERSONALITY = FIERCE
SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 9
MOVE = 5
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 3
POINTS = ?

ROPE-A-DOPE
If there are one or more unrevealed Order Markers on this card, when Wildcat is attacked by an adjacent opponent's normal attack, add one shield to his defense roll. If their is a revealed Order Marker on this card, and no unrevealed Order Markers, when Wildcat attacks an adjacent opponent's figure with a normal attack, you may treat one shield or blank rolled as a rolled skull.

FISTS OF FURY
If Wildcat rolls at least 3 skulls with his normal attack, Wildcat may attack again with his normal attack. Wildcat may continue attacking with his normal attack until Wildcat rolls fewer than 3 skulls. Wildcat cannot attack more than four times in a single turn.

FANCY FOOTWORK
After Wildcat, or any Protege or Mystery Man you control within 4 clear sight spaces of Wildcat, rolls defense dice verse an adjacent attack, you may immedietly move the defending figure 2 spaces. Figures moved with Fancy Footwork do not take leaving engagement attacks.

Doesn't have to be this by any means, I did just throw it together on a whim after all, but that looks like a boxers card to me. The synergy offered is useful but not powerful enough to worry about teaming him up with Powergirl or Superman.
 
Re: The Book of Wildcat (Design Phase)

I spent so much time typing that up I didn't see Johnny's comments until after posting. I will echo his thoughts about boosting other Fighters. Since this project's overall story involves mixing up different characters from different comic universes to fight a shared opponent, I could definitely see him teaming up with all sorts of fighters he might not have fought along side in his DC comic run. Birds of a feather flock together.
 
Re: The Book of Wildcat (Design Phase)

There are a lot of great ideas being thrown around here and that is inspiring to me. I'm going to think on them some more this evening. Where I am at right now is that I would really like to keep Fists of Fury in there is it is not causing any issues. Here's some things off the top of my head that I'm thinking about (classes that get boosted variable of course):

FIGHT COACH
Crime Fighters and Fighters you control roll one additional die against figures leaving engagement from them. If a Crime Fighter or Fighter you control receives a wound when leaving an engagement, they may move one additional space and may count one blank as a skull when attacking this turn.

FIGHT COACH
Whenever a Crime Fighter or Fighter you control ends its movement engaged with an opponent's figure, if it was engaged with that figure for its entire movement, it was count up to two blanks rolled as skulls when attacking that figure this turn.

FIGHT COACH
Crime Fighters and Fighters you control with unrevealed Order Markers on their Army Cards may roll one additional die against figures leaving an engagement with them. Crime Fighters and Fighters you control with only revealed Order Markers on their Army Cards never take leaving engagement attacks and may move one space after attacking an opponent's figure they are engaged with.
 
Re: The Book of Wildcat (Design Phase)

Lazy Orang said:
An Attack of 5 vs no defence is brutal... that needs to be toned down, either remove the attack boost or change no defence to something like -2.
Click to expand...




The no defense is only for the followup non boostable 2 attack. Unless I'm reading it wrong. So if he attacks and does not score a hit he gets the follow up 2 dice unblockable...
 
Re: The Book of Wildcat (Design Phase)

I do like the direction of improving an attack roll via coaching vs. adding to an attack roll.
 
Re: The Book of Wildcat (Design Phase)

I think it's pretty obvious that Class is not the best way to do this. What if he had two qualifiers, such as "the chosen figure is either human or metahuman OR a fighter or protege, you may change any rolled attack die to a skull. If the chosen figure is either a human fighter, human protege, metahuman fighter, or metahuman protege, you may add an automatic skull when they roll attack dice."
 
Re: The Book of Wildcat (Design Phase)

You could just do something like this:

FIGHT COACH
If Wildcat is unengaged, any friendly figures adjacent to him may re-roll any blanks rolled when attacking an adjacent figure.
 
Re: The Book of Wildcat (Design Phase)

Margloth said:
You could just do something like this:

FIGHT COACH
If Wildcat is unengaged, any friendly figures adjacent to him may re-roll any blanks rolled when attacking an adjacent figure.
Click to expand...


I like that and think it would look real nice with this...

japes said:
THE OL' ONE-TWO
When Wildcat attacks an adjacent figure with his normal attack, if the defending figure does not receive any wounds from this attack, Wildcat may attack that figure one additional time, rolling 2 attack dice. The chosen figure cannot roll any defense dice against this additional attack.

Rope-A-Dope
If Wildcat defends against an adjacent normal attack and does not receive a wound, roll an unblockable attack die against the attacking figure (or just an auto wound).
Click to expand...
 
Re: The Book of Wildcat (Design Phase)

japes said:
Margloth said:
You could just do something like this:

FIGHT COACH
If Wildcat is unengaged, any friendly figures adjacent to him may re-roll any blanks rolled when attacking an adjacent figure.
Click to expand...


I like that and think it would look real nice with this...

japes said:
THE OL' ONE-TWO
When Wildcat attacks an adjacent figure with his normal attack, if the defending figure does not receive any wounds from this attack, Wildcat may attack that figure one additional time, rolling 2 attack dice. The chosen figure cannot roll any defense dice against this additional attack.

Rope-A-Dope
If Wildcat defends against an adjacent normal attack and does not receive a wound, roll an unblockable attack die against the attacking figure (or just an auto wound).
Click to expand...
Click to expand...


My grandfather was a professional boxer and my dad an amateur boxer so boxing has been in my family and this set feels like a boxer... THE OL' ONE-TWO feels like they sold out to block the jab to the face and got caught un-gaurded with the hook to the body. ROPE-A-DOPE feels like he let them take a shot and they overextend thinking they have him on the ropes and he catches them with an unexpected uppercut.....
 
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