The Book of Techno

[Ronin]

Re: The Book of Techno (Design)

Any other thoughts here? People okay with going to initial with that tweak?

 

[Arkham]

Re: The Book of Techno (Design)

Looks good to me.

 

[SirGalahad]

Re: The Book of Techno (Design)

Worth a try. Seems a bit busy though. May not be an issue.

 

[Yodaking]

Re: The Book of Techno (Design)

I'm okay with seeing how it plays out in a game situation. It's true value will be better to understand then. I'm not really sure he will fall into that 150 point target point though. Negating def. by 1 and then either hitting that target with a double attack or using disengage to leave and hit them at range for a single attack, all followed by another figure turn where the -1 def. is still in effect seems like it could be pretty potent. Covering Fire could even move him into engagement to set up the next OM reveal, and Songbird improves his defense while he is engaged, so he has some good allies in place for what he can do. Lots of moving parts though so it could also prove difficult to maximize and thus a good power set but not a big concern. Run the tests and lets us know what you think.

 

[Ronin]

Re: The Book of Techno (Design)

Worth a try. Seems a bit busy though. May not be an issue.

If we wanted to pare back slightly, we could trim the Move and Range number boosts. No LEAs and attacking non-adjacent figures while engaged are pretty good benefits by themselves. Might want to up his base Range number by 1 or 2 to compensate, though.

 

[johnny139]

Re: The Book of Techno (Design)

I'd agree with the complexity but, on a two-power card, I'm fine with it. It's pretty easily understood, so most of the complexity comes from the strategic options, I think.

 

[Ronin]

Re: The Book of Techno (Design)

Alright, SP updated. Here's proposing we move Techno to Initial testing.
@japes - yea
@Arkham - yea
@Tornado - yea
@Yodaking - yea
@johnny139
@SirGalahad - yea
@Spidey'tilIDie - yea

 

[japes]

Re: The Book of Techno (Vote Initial)

YEA

 

[Arkham]

Re: The Book of Techno (Vote Initial)

yea

 

[Ronin]

Re: The Book of Techno (Vote Initial)

Mandatory sanity check @dok @Dysole @weebaer @Soundwarp SG-1

 

[Tornado]

Re: The Book of Techno (Vote Initial)

With CRB approval, Yea.

 

[SirGalahad]

Re: The Book of Techno (Vote Initial)

yea

 

[Soundwarp SG-1]

Re: The Book of Techno (Vote Initial)

No concerns from me, he has a lot of options but none of the combinations are ultimately that crazy.

 

[Yodaking]

Re: The Book of Techno (Vote Initial)

yea

 

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Re: The Book of Techno (Vote Initial)

Yea looks good.

 

[Ronin]

Re: The Book of Techno (Vote Initial)

This passes

 

[Ronin]

Re: The Book of Techno (Initial Playtesting)

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Techno @150 points

Army Test
Map: Mole Hills
Units: Original Thunderbolts (1200) vs Robot, Red Skull, Star-Lord, Fantomex, Timber Wolf (1200)

Spoiler Alert!

Techno does pretty well for himself, but things don't go great for the Thunderbolts overall - Timberwolf goes on a tear early and manages to put in some serious damage on Songbird and Meteorite. Timber Wolf finishes off Meteorite, and Fantomex manages to misdirect Atlas into finishing off Songbird. With those two pillars of the team going down so hard, the T-Bolts take a loss.

Unit Summary:

• Damage Done (Normal Attack): 4 wounds to Star-Lord in 5 attacks, 0 wounds to Red Skull in 2 attacks
• Tech-Pac:
  • 1st use: chose Move/Range boosts
  • 2nd use: chose double attack and Range boosts
  • 3rd use: chose LEA and double attack
  • 4th use: chose -1 defense and double attack
• Reckless Engagement: boosted 2 attacks against Red Skull, 4 attacks against Star-Lord
• Damage Taken: 3 wounds from Timber Wolf in 1 attack, 1 wound from Robot in 1 attack (destroyed)

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Robot with 4 wounds, Fantomex with 2 wounds, Timber Wolf unwounded

___________________________________________________________​

Army Test
Map: Mole Hills
Units: Techno @150, Songbird, Atlas, MACH-I (800) vs Wrecking Crew (800)

Spoiler Alert!

The Wrecking Crew whiff a bunch of attack rolls en route to a loss. Techno survives a lot of stuff he shouldn't, facing down a whiff each from Wrecker and Piledriver. He does eventually go down, but the Wrecking Crew waste enough time on him and Songbird that Atlas and MACH-I are able to take them down.

Unit Summary:

• Damage Done (Normal Attack): 5 wounds to Piledriver in 4 attacks, 2 wounds to Wrecker in 1 attack (destroyed), 0 wounds to Bulldozer in 1 attack
• Tech-Pac:
  • 1st Use: chose Range/double attack
  • 2nd use: chose double attack/-1 Defense
  • 3rd use: chose double attack/-1 Defense
• Reckless Engagement: lowered defense in 1 attack from Piledriver & 2 attacks from Wrecker, boosted attack for 1 attack against Wrecker
• Damage Taken: 0 wounds from Piledriver in 1 attack, 1 wound from Wrecker in 2 attacks, 3 wounds from Thunderball in 2 attacks (destroyed)

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Atlas with 2 wounds, MACH-I unwounded

___________________________________________________________​

Army Test
Map: Mole Hills
Units: Techno @150, Songbird, Atlas, MACH-I (800) vs Wrecking Crew (800)

Spoiler Alert!

Rematched the last game because of the wonky luck. It was a little more even overall here. Techno finally gets punked in this game and goes down hard.

Unit Summary:

• Damage Done (Normal Attack): 1 wound to Bulldozer in 2 attacks
• Tech-Pac:
  • 1st Use: chose Range/double attack
• Reckless Engagement: no effect
• Damage Taken: 1 wound from Wrecker in 1 attack, 3 wounds from Bulldozer in 1 attack (destroyed)

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Thunderball with 4 wounds

___________________________________________________________​

Army Test
Map: Mole Hills
Units: Techno @150, Citizen V, Captain America, Songbird, Meteorite (970) vs Iron Patriot, Valkyrie, Captain Marvel (Mary) (970)

Spoiler Alert!

Mary Marvel (mercifully) manages to murder Meteorite in one attack right at the start of the game, preventing her from interfering with Iron Patriot and Valkyrie's powers. Iron Patriot decides to pick on Techno for Master Motivator, but thanks to Songbird, Cap and height advantage, Techno manages to endure more attacks than expected. Fortunately for Team Iron Patriot, Valkyrie keeps him in the game for a little while, and once he and Val do go down, Mary Marvel is able to mop up the remaining, heavily-wounded Thunderbolts.

Unit Summary:

• Damage Done (Normal Attack): 1 wound to Valkyrie in 2 attacks, 4 wounds to Iron Patriot in 2 attacks (boosted by Cap, Iron Patriot at -1 defense), 1 wound to Iron Patriot in 1 attack (boosted by Cap, Reckless Engagement) (destroyed), 3 wounds to Captain Marvel in 3 attacks
• Tech-Pac:
  • 1st Use: chose Range/double attack
  • 2nd use: chose -1 Defense/double attack
  • 3rd use: chose Range/double attack
  • 4th use: chose Range/double attack
• Reckless Engagement: rolled at -1 defense for 2 attacks from Iron Patriot, rolled at +1 attack for 1 attack against Iron Patriot
• Damage Taken: 2 wounds from Iron Patriot in 4 attacks, 2 wounds from Captain Marvel in 1 attack

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Captain Marvel with 3 wounds

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: Techno had a couple really great games, and only fell victim to his glass jaw once. He's definitely looking strong, but accounting for all the support figures backing him up in these games, I'm not sure he's coming in too hot.

The overall results look nice on balance, so I'm taking that as a good sign. Open to other thoughts here, though.

Change: replaced the following from Tech-Pac:

-when Techno attacks, he may attack one additional time.

with the following:

-after Techno attacks a non-adjacent figure, he may attack one additional time.

Army Test
Map: Mole Hills
Units: Techno @150, Citizen V, Captain America, Songbird, Meteorite (970) vs Professor X, Jubilee, Deadpool, Storm, Angel (Warren), Toad (970)

Spoiler Alert!

Techno does some more moderate damage here, as part of a pretty close match - it came down to Captain America vs Toad, Chuck and Jubilee, and Cap's attack rolls (that didn't get Psychic Defense X'd) were weak enough that Chuck and Jubes had time to put him down.

Techno did at one point use both the double attack and the -1 Defense: he dropped Storm's defense by one then took an LEA and moved away so that he could attack twice. He's fragile enough that he can really only take so many LEAs, so the -1 Defense and double attack trick is something he can only use so often.

Unit Summary:

• Damage Done (Normal Attack): 2 wounds to Angel in 1 attack (destroyed), 2 wounds to Storm in 1 attack
• Tech-Pac:
  • 1st use: chose Range/Move
    *]2nd use: chose double attack, -1 Defense (reduced Storm's defense for 2 attacks from Techno & 1 attack from Songbird)
• Reckless Engagement: reduced 1 defense roll
• Damage Taken: 2 wounds from Storm in 4 special attacks & 1 normal attack (destroyed), 2 wounds from Deadpool in 2 attacks

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Professor X unwounded, Jubilee with 2 wounds

___________________________________________________________​

Army Test
Map: Mole Hills
Units: Techno @150, Citizen V, Captain America, Songbird, Meteorite, Skrull Infiltrator x2 (1000) vs Fantastic Four (1000)

Spoiler Alert!

Meteorite assassinates Sue early on, and the FF never quite recover. Techno gets some good hits in on Reed after Sue goes down, and also gets one big lucky hit in on Johnny - unfortunately it's the unluckiest kind of lucky hit against the FF, bringing Johnny up to a total of 4 wounds and triggering Clobbering Time. Thing promptly flattens Techno and Songbird.

The match comes down to Thing vs Citizen V and Cap. Thing might have had a shot with some hot defense rolls, but he was only rolling so-so, and the Cap-boosted Swordplay attacks did him in.

Unit Summary:

• Damage Done (Normal Attack): 2 wounds to Reed in 4 attacks (destroyed), 3 wounds to Johnny in 1 attack
• Tech-Pac:
  • 1st use: chose Move/double attack
  • 2nd use: chose -1 Defense, others not useful for this turn (would have taken Move, but Rubber Wrapped)
  • 3rd use: chose -1 Defense, others not useful for this turn (same)
• Reckless Engagement: reduced 1 defense roll
• Damage Taken: 1 wound from Reed in 2 attacks, 0 wounds from Sue in 1 attack, 2 wounds from Flame On 4, 1 wound from Thing in 1 attack (destroyed)

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Captain America unwounded, Citizen V with 2 wounds

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: The double attack being slightly more niche feels appropriate. Doesn't make a difference when he's trying to go for height and snipe, but it calls for some tricky decisions if he gets tied down. Still decent showings and 1-1, so I'm happy with the change.

 

[Arkham]

Re: The Book of Techno (Initial Playtesting)

Not really sure how we rule this. I’m i the same boat with Mera and ended up increasing point value due to wounds dealt, however, she’s being surrounded with suppprt to make her shine and she still lost 2 out of 3 games. I figure we still boost the cost, but is that right? At what point do we account the value for the supporting units doing what they are costed to do?

 

[Ronin]

Re: The Book of Techno (Initial Playtesting)

Well, I feel like as long as the figure is:
a) draftable
b) not breaking anything

Then we're probably okay. For most units, you can give or take a little bit and still be at a reasonable price point.

I do think there's one important difference between Mera and Techno, in that Techno's factional support is already in place, whereas Mera doesn't really have hers yet, and will get more down the line as we build up the Red Lanterns.

I think I might try some light-touch tweaks to take the edge off his performance and try running him in a couple more games, just to see how those go:

NAME = TECHNO
SECRET IDENTITY = PAUL NORBERT EBERSOL

SPECIES = HUMAN
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = CHARLATAN
PERSONALITY = ARROGANT

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 4

MOVE = 5
RANGE = 4
ATTACK = 3
DEFENSE = 4

POINTS = 150

TECH-PAC
After revealing an Order Marker on this card, you may choose two of the following effects for the rest of your turn:
-add 2 to Techno's Move number and Techno will not take any leaving engagement attacks.
-add 3 to Techno's Range number and Techno can attack non-adjacent figures even if he is engaged.
-when Techno attacks, he may attack one additional time.
-after Techno attacks a non-adjacent figure, he may attack one additional time.
-all figures that were engaged with Techno at the start of your turn subtract 1 from their Defense numbers.

RECKLESS ENGAGEMENT
If Techno is not adjacent to any friendly figures and is engaged with at least one enemy figure, add 1 die to his normal attack and subtract 1 die from his defense.

FLYING

 

[Arkham]

Re: The Book of Techno (Initial Playtesting)

You’re right on the difference there. That’s why I ultimately aimed higher to play it safe.

 

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Re: The Book of Techno (Initial Playtesting)

@Ronin if Techno lost 3 of 4, why do you feel he needs nerfing? Things seem pretty well balanced in those tests. I definitely wouldn't weaken him.

 

[Ronin]

Re: The Book of Techno (Initial Playtesting)

@Ronin if Techno lost 3 of 4, why do you feel he needs nerfing? Things seem pretty well balanced in those tests. I definitely wouldn't weaken him.

I don't know that he needs it, but I suspect he may. The tricky thing is that in order to get a sense of how he plays in his faction, you need to work in a lot of supporting figures and Techno's own impact is a little diluted in all the goings-on. Even though the overall results are pretty even-looking, Techno himself had some pretty good games, and there's room for him to have overperformed without swinging the win-loss record by too much.

Mainly I'm treading carefully because I want to make sure I'm not just seeing what I want to see in the results. If people are okay with moving the tested version forward at 150, then I'm okay with it.

 

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Re: The Book of Techno (Initial Playtesting)

From what you have in the test reports, yes, that looks good to me.

 

[Yodaking]

Re: The Book of Techno (Initial Playtesting)

I understand why Ronin was a bit concerned, his individual performance in those games looked pretty good for a 150 point figure. Might be worth it to try him out without the Charlatan boosts just to see how he does on his own. Perhaps his high damage output had something to do with the bonus defense die and such making him perform stronger as the member of the team. I also think you may have gone too far in your tweaks though Ronin. I'm seeing 3 different nerfs to the one power plus a stat reduction, that seems like a lot considering how close some of the games really were and the W/L record. I do like the 'double attack only vs. non-adj. figures' change though. Seems like a good trade off, double attack at range or single attack vs. someone you reduced the def. of.

 

[Ronin]

Re: The Book of Techno (Initial Playtesting)

The stat tweak was actually an increase from 3 to 4 for his Range. And I think the double attack one would be the change with the most impact; the other changes are relatively minor light-touch things.