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The Book of Talia al Ghul

IAmBatman

IAmBatman

Champ of C3G Con 2020, 2024, and mindless posting
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The Book of Talia al Ghul

C3G DC WAVE 12
LEGENDS OF THE DARK KNIGHT

C3G_TaliaAlGuhl_comic.png


Comic PDF

C3G_TaliaAlGuhl_mini.png


Mini PDF

The figure used for this unit is a Heroclix figure from the Legacy set.
Its model number and name are #010-012/Talia.

The figure used for this unit is a Heroclix figure from the Batman Alpha set.
Its model number and name are #018/Talia.​

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Character Bio - Talia is the daughter of powerful international terrorist and long-time Batman foe, Ra's al Ghul (also known as "The Demon's Head"). Batman is the one person in the world Ra's sees as worthy of his daughter's hand in marriage and thus the continuation of Ra's al Ghul's genetic line. Talia often feels herself torn between her loyalty to her father and her love for the Dark Knight Detective. As a result, she is neither fully a villain, nor truly a hero. A trained assassin, she's performed many vile deeds in the name of her father, but also hasn't hesitated to rescue Batman from injury at her father's hands.
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-Rulings and Clarifications-
  • Q: Exactly how does Swordplay work with multiple adjacent opponent figures that are at standing on varying levels of height in relation to Talia al Ghul?
  • A: The first attack "locks in" a number of attack dice to roll, and every subsequent attack after that is based on the initial roll. Lets do an example: If Talis al Ghul (with 3 Attack) had height advantage on the first target, she would be able to use Swordplay for a maximum of 4 attacks (using 4,3,2,1 dice), regardless of who she attacked after the first attack. This is assuming that she rolled at least 1 skull on each previous attack.
_________________________________________________________________

-Combinations and Synergies-

Incoming Synergy:Outgoing Synergy:
  • Talia al Ghul adds 1 to her Attack number if she begins her turn adjacent to a Mastermind or Assassin you control due to her Divided Loyalty special power. Current Masterminds and Assassins.
_________________________________________________________________

-Immunities, Benefits, and Weaknesses-

Immunities
  • N/A
Benefits
  • N/A
Weaknesses
  • Talia al Ghul cannot attack any figure she begins her turn adjacent to if she begins her turn adjacent to an opponent's Vigilante or Sidekick figure due to her Divided Loyalty special power. Current Vigilantes and Sidekicks.
_________________________________________________________________

-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-
  • N/A
-Heroscapers Community Contributions-
 
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Re: The Book of Talia al Ghul - Design Phase

NAME = TALIA AL GHUL


SPECIES = HUMAN
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = ASSASSIN
PERSONALITY = SEDUCTIVE

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 4

MOVE = 5
RANGE = 5
ATTACK = 3
DEFENSE = 4

POINTS = 110

DIVIDED LOYALTY
Before taking a turn with Talia al Ghul:
  • If she is adjacent to one or more Masterminds or Assassins you control, add 1 to her Attack number this turn.
  • If she is adjacent to an opponent's Vigilante or Sidekick, she may not attack any figure that was adjacent to her at the beginning of the turn.
SWORDPLAY
If Talia al Ghul attacks an adjacent figure with her normal attack and at least one skull is rolled, she may attack an adjacent figure again. She may continue attacking adjacent figures, rolling 1 fewer attack die for each subsequent attack, until you fail to roll a skull.

PHANTOM WALK
Talia al Ghul can move through all figures and is never attacked when leaving an engagement.
 
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Re: The Book of Talia al Ghul - Design Phase

She'll work really nice alongside Ra's and the Hand Ninja. Can't wait to see what you've got for Elite League Assassins.

I think I know what you're trying to say with the Torn Heart power, but I'm a little confused by it. Would bullets help? Is it an either or type of power?

I think Swordplay looks cool, but I'm a little worried it will be WAY too easy to abuse. Base attack of 3 + 1 (Torn Heart) + 1 (height advantage) + 1 (Avenger). Granted you'd have to do quite a few things to get her to attack 6, but I'd think it would make her Swordplay power broken.
 
Re: The Book of Talia al Ghul - Design Phase

Are you using the mini with the sword in one hand and the gun in the other?

Should the OM be revealed on this card for Torn Heart?
Should the figures she is adjacent to for the bonus/restriction be ones you control?

Should Swordplay be based on skulls or wounds?
 
Re: The Book of Talia al Ghul - Design Phase

TORN HEART
After revealing an Order Marker, before taking a turn with Talia al Ghul, if she is adjacent to a Mastermind or Assassin, add one to her Attack number this turn, and if she is adjacent to a Vigilante or Sidekick, she may not attack an adjacent figure this turn.
Click to expand...
Even if she's adjacent to a friendly Vigilante or Sidekick she can't attack an adjacent figure? After revealing an OM is kind of confusing. Is it necessary? Couldn't you just say:


TORN HEART
  • If Talia al Ghul is adjacent to a Mastermind or Assassin before taking her turn, add one to her attack number this turn.
  • If Talia al Ghul is adjacent to a Vigilante or Sidekick before taking her turn, she may not attack an adjacent figure this turn.
Click to expand...

SWORDPLAY
If Talia al Ghul attacks an adjacent figure with her normal attack and at least one skull is rolled, she may attack that figure again. She may continue attacking that adjacent figure until you fail to roll a skull or that figure is destroyed.
Click to expand...
So if she's adjacent to a Mastermind or Assassin before taking her turn and then runs off and uses her melee attack of 4 (5 with height or boosted by Cap, 6 with height and boosted by cap) she can keep keep attacking as long as she rolls at least one skull? That can go on for a while even with attack of 3 let alone 4,5 or 6. (just for the heck of it I just tried it a few times with just 3 dice and got 2 attacks, 5 attacks, 1 attack and 24 attacks!). Not only can that be swingy power-wise, it can take a long time to get through an attack with her.


I like the ideas behind the design, particularly Torn Heart (though just need some clarification on it a bit). And Swordplay is interesting, but as mentioned above, can be kind of swingy and make for a looooooong turn. :)
 
Re: The Book of Talia al Ghul - Design Phase

SWORD PLAY was a power idea I came up with for a "Zorro" like character for C3V. I really like that power, but I agree. As is, it is too exploitable with the current power set.

How about this:
SWORDPLAY
If Talia al Ghul attacks an adjacent figure with her normal attack and at least one skull is rolled, she may attack that figure again. She may continue attacking the same adjacent figure, rolling 1 fewer attack die for each subsequent attack, until you fail to roll a skull or that figure is destroyed.

SWORDPLAY
If Talia al Ghul attacks an adjacent figure with her normal attack and at least one skull is rolled, she may attack that figure again. She may continue attacking the same adjacent figure, rolling 1 fewer attack die for each subsequent attack, until you fail to roll a skull.
 
Re: The Book of Talia al Ghul - Design Phase

I'm watching and reading as the breathing period continues here. :) Great stuff here, guys!
I'm agreeing that Torn Heart doesn't need an OM restriction and can benefit from bullets. Also, the intent was for the bonus to only come from your figures, and the penalty only from opponents' figures, so I'll have to update with that.
Sword and gun mini here, absolutely. I plan on updating the OP with mini info soon as well as tracking down comic art at some point.
Griff, absolutely agree with those changes to the Swordplay power and I absolutely agree with the concerns others expressed. Great stuff, guys. :) That change should also help keep her cost down, which is a good thing, IMO.
So, keep it coming and thanks! :)
Griff, should I be asking around for mini photos here, or do you have her taken care of?
 
Re: The Book of Talia al Ghul - Design Phase

I got your back on the mini pic, just give me a couple of days. We are having some gray weather right now.
 
Re: The Book of Talia al Ghul - Design Phase

Oh, absolutely no hurry here. Just wanted to know if I needed to put out a call or not. Thanks so much! :)
 
Re: The Book of Talia al Ghul - Design Phase

Well the first pic is computer generated (not comicky enough) and it is a tad fleshy as well. :p But I don't mind the second pic's.... bust. :lol:
 
Re: The Book of Talia al Ghul - Design Phase

I wish I could find a better pic of her with a sword ...
 
Re: The Book of Talia al Ghul - Design Phase

I like the design and I like Griffin's suggested changes to Swordplay. :up:
 
Re: The Book of Talia al Ghul - Design Phase

Thank you, sir! :) Did you touch up her blouse with silver there? I think my mini is more white in the shirt.
 
Re: The Book of Talia al Ghul - Design Phase

OP updated. I'll send this on out to the ERB. :)
 
Re: The Book of Talia al Ghul - Design Phase

I actually meant to make it Mastermind/Assassin you control and opponent's Vigilante but forgot that in the update! :) Thanks for the reminder (and the comments).

Cheers,
Bats

davidlhsl said:
Talia al Ghul

As if the Team Ninja I've been playing isn't deadly enough, here comes another Assassin to pump them up. Let's see if she can seduce me.

Torn Heart
So if she's adjacent to a Mastermind and a Sidekick, for example, she'd get the +1 attack that can only strike at range. Due to this synergy, I probably wouldn't put her with the Bullseye/Elektra/Hand Ninja group. She's got other folks to work with (if her name is any indication, it'd be a figure that hasn't been released yet).

This doesn't specify figures "you control," so the effect would also apply to any enemy figures she begins the turn engaged. That might be thematic for her and intended. The Mastermind/Assassin effect isn't a problem, but I'm wondering about the effect against a Vigilante/Sidekick. She does have Phantom Walk, so she can break away unless another figure (e.g., Blob or Jean Grey) holds her.

I'm 99.9% certain that the +1 Attack won't stack if she starts the turn adjacent to multiple Masterminds/Assassins, but the wording experts should verify this won't happen based on the current wording.

Swordplay
Very neat mechanic, and Torn Heart will assist this. Add height advantage, and you've got a wicked slasher. That does mean that if she's attacking an adjacent Mastermind or Assassin, she'd get the Torn Heart bonus due to the "you control" issue I mentioned earlier.

Phantom Walk
I've noticed that some designs, such as Elektra, put this towards the top to organize the abilities in the order in which they occur in the turn. If you do that here, it would be the second ability.

Final Thoughts
Ok, she seduced me. :smile: The "you control" item is mentioned to verify theme, and you should make sure the wording doesn't allow stacking of the Torn Heart attack bonus. The Swordplay is really cool.

En Garde!
Click to expand...
 
Re: The Book of Talia al Ghul - Design Phase

Hmm ... strange ... I'll have to pull my unit out later and look at it more closely.

(That one was for you, A3n. :p ).
 
Re: The Book of Talia al Ghul - Design Phase

Thanks, V! Sorry to hear about the health issues. Hope you're doing better and glad to see you back on the horse here. :) We definitely get lots of value out of your comments.

Cheers,
Bats

1Mmirg said:
I've been terrible. If you have an easy way to tell everyone sorry for all the PMs I've missed, please pass on my sincere apologies.

The surgery just took everything over the top. I tried to stay basically active, but never did keep up anywhere, and my PM box just backed way up...

Sorry.

However, this little gal got my attention. Very, very fun:

IAmBatman said:
NAME = TALIA AL GHUL [So glad to see her in the works]

SECRET IDENTITY = N/A

SPECIES = HUMAN
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = ASSASSIN
PERSONALITY = SEDUCTIVE

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 4

MOVE = 5
RANGE = 5
ATTACK = 3
DEFENSE = 4

POINTS = 120?

TORN HEART
Before taking a turn with Talia al Ghul:
  • If she is adjacent to a Mastermind or Assassin, add one to her Attack number this turn.
  • If she is adjacent to a Vigilante or Sidekick, she may not attack an adjacent figure this turn.
[Not sure about the bullets. Just as a word person, it bugs me to see that sentence broken up that way. Beyond that, it seems to imply that these are options, rather than conditions that can each be active at the same time.

However, as a power it is really, really intriguing.

If I'm playing her bad, she is "amping up" by being with her comrades in crime. But she is still not sure about taking lives when she is close to the good guys.

If I'm playing her good, then she is getting bonuses for being next to evil guys she is working to kill. But, then, what is the issue with the Vigilantes? Because she is with Bats, she doesn't want to an evil stooge who is adjacent to them both and wants to kill him?!

This is a power that screams theme, but also seems to struggle a bit at the same time.

I wonder if it would make more sense for her bonuses to be based on where she ends her movement, rather than before her turn begins--i.e. "before attacking" power wording.]


SWORDPLAY
 If Talia al Ghul attacks an adjacent figure with her normal attack and at least one skull is rolled, she may attack that figure again. She may continue attacking the same adjacent figure, rolling 1 fewer attack die for each subsequent attack, until you fail to roll a skull.

[Great power. Love it.]

PHANTOM WALK
Talia al Ghul can move through all figures and is never attacked when leaving engagements.

[Also a great choice.]
Click to expand...

I like where you are going. I'm not sure the signature power is quite right, but I may be missing some of the rational of it. My initial response is "I like it, I do, cool theme, and, hmm, wait, I'm not so sure about it." :smile:

Hope my comments are some help. So glad to be out of the Vicodin fog, but that doesn't mean that I'm actually thinking straight quite yet either. :wink:

All best, V :smile:
Click to expand...
 
Re: The Book of Talia al Ghul - Design Phase

I'll take the whole before/after moving aspect of Torn Heart into account when playtesting. I was thinking that I don't want the bonus to be too easy to get off, though, and don't mind the penalty being tough to avoid, because that should help keep her cost down. He wasn't loving the bullets, but we can take a closer look at that text in final editing.
 
Re: The Book of Talia al Ghul - Design Phase

Sorry it appears that I didn't subscribe to this thread when you notified us. Looks good :up:.
 
Re: The Book of Talia al Ghul - Design Phase

Thanks! :) I think you're just allergic to subscribing to my LDs. :p Did you see the comment I left for you above?
 
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