The Book of Swamp Thing

[quozl]

The Book of Swamp Thing​

C3G DC PUBLIC EXCLUSIVE COLLECTION 2
CREATURES AND CREEPERS​

Comic PDF​

Mini PDF​

The figure used for this unit is a Heroclix figure from the Hypertime set.
Its model number and name are #115-117 / Swamp Thing.​

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Character Bio - Years ago, bio-scientist Alec Holland was brutally murdered in an explosion and ended up in the swamp of Louisiana. Accumulating leaves, moss, and rotten decay, a body was formed around Holland's mind, and arose as the Swamp Thing. For years, this Swamp Thing believed itself to be Alec Holland mutated into a monster, and vainly sought a cure to restore himself to human. It wasn't until much later that the creature learned the truth: He wasn't Alec Holland. He was a Plant Elemental, an agent of the Green, a vegetable, with the memories of Alec Holland. After realizing and accepting the truth, the Swamp Thing found a purpose in life as protector of the Earth. He developed his powers and skills, learning how to regenerate himself, control plant life, and travel through the realms and even how to travel back in time.
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-Rulings and Clarifications-

• N/A

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-Combinations and Synergies-

Incoming Synergy:

• As a Scientist, Swamp Thing has these Scientist Synergies.

Outgoing Synergy:

• N/A

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-Immunities, Benefits, and Weaknesses-

Immunities:

• As a figure with the Super Strength special power, Swamp Thing cannot be affected by aspects of certain special powers. Current Special Powers that Interact Differently with the Super Strength special power.

Benefits:

• As a Scientist, Swamp Thing interacts differently with certain special powers. Current Special Powers that Interact Differently with Scientists.
• As a figure with the Super Strength special power, Swamp Thing interacts differently with certain special powers. Current Special Powers that Interact Differently with the Super Strength special power.

Weaknesses:

• As a Scientist, Swamp Thing can be affected by aspects of certain special powers. Current Special Powers that Interact Differently with Scientists.

_________________________________________________________________

-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-

• N/A

-Heroscapers Community Contributions-

• Initial Playtest: IAmBatman
• Second Playtest: Hidicul
• Third Playtest: Flame Gryphon

 

[Scapemage]

Re: C3G Swamp Thing: Design Phase

NAME = SWAMP THING
SECRET IDENTITY = ALEC HOLLAND

SPECIES = PLANT ELEMENTAL
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = SCIENTIST
PERSONALITY = VENGEFUL

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 5

MOVE = 5
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 7
DEFENSE = 5

POINTS = 235

THE GREEN
Instead of moving and attacking, you may place Swamp Thing on an empty space up to 8 spaces away. Swamp Thing can only use The Green if he is placed adjacent to an Evergreen Tree or a Jungle Piece, or on a grass, swamp, or swamp water space. If Swamp Thing is engaged when using The Green, he will not take any leaving engagement attacks. After using The Green, you may remove 1 Wound Marker from this Army Card.

SWAMP STRENGTH
When Swamp Thing is on a swamp or swamp water space, add one die to his Attack and Defense.

CUT DOWN TO SIZE
When Swamp Thing attacks, roll one fewer attack die for each Wound Marker on this card.

SUPER STRENGTH

Spoiler Alert!

Looks cool, however:

8 attack is way too high. I wouldn't go over 6 for him personally, but it's up to you.

Seriously consider putting a cap on The Green. I suggest:
Swamp Lurk
Instead of moving normally, Swamp Thing may swamp lurk. To Swamp Lurk, place Swamp Thing on any unoccupied swamp or swamp water space withing 10 spaces of Swamp Thing.

Also, this needs rewording, and I think it should be like stealth dodge:
Plant Matter
When defending against an attack from a non-adjacent figure, one shield will block all damage.

Or, if you really want to:

Plant Matter
Swamp Thing cannot be targeted by an attack from a non-adjacent figure.

And finally (for now ), some art suggestions:

Figure art:

Spoiler Alert!

It's a bad picture, so I'll happilly go take a much better one in a few minutes.

Comic Art:

Spoiler Alert!

And some nice swampy backgrounds...

Spoiler Alert!

What did I tell you? Enjoy, and expect some figure pics in a few minutes.

 

[Scapemage]

Re: C3G Swamp Thing: Design Phase

Check out my post for some figure pics.

 

[quozl]

Re: C3G Swamp Thing: Design Phase

Cool! I think the first comic art picture best. Thanks for grabbing those.

Now I'll explain my choices.

8 attack is way too high. I wouldn't go over 6 for him personally, but it's up to you.

Seriously consider putting a cap on The Green. I suggest:
Swamp Lurk
Instead of moving normally, Swamp Thing may swamp lurk. To Swamp Lurk, place Swamp Thing on any unoccupied swamp or swamp water space withing 10 spaces of Swamp Thing.

Also, this needs rewording, and I think it should be like stealth dodge:
Plant Matter
When defending against an attack from a non-adjacent figure, one shield will block all damage.

Or, if you really want to:

Plant Matter
Swamp Thing cannot be targeted by an attack from a non-adjacent figure.

I'm a fan of classic Swamp Thing (as a kid, I had the first few issues) and I've also read a compilation of what Alan Moore did in the 80s. Swamp Thing is tremedously strong. In the comics, he's always pulling his punches so he doesn't outright kill people (even Batman!) in one punch. I wanted him to be able to do a lot of damage (I even thought about upping his attack to 9) but only to one figure at a time.

For the unlimited movement range on THE GREEN, I got that from Alan Moore's run where he can travel around the world and to other planets through The Green.

As for my wording on Plant Matter, I wanted him to not be affected by normal bullets or arrows but still be affected by special attacks. I thought about the "not able to be targeted" wording but I wanted him to still be targeted for special attacks.

I hope that explains what I was thinking and thanks for all the suggestions!

 

[Scapemage]

Re: C3G Swamp Thing: Design Phase

Cool! I think the first comic art picture best. Thanks for grabbing those.

Now I'll explain my choices.

8 attack is way too high. I wouldn't go over 6 for him personally, but it's up to you.

Seriously consider putting a cap on The Green. I suggest:
Swamp Lurk
Instead of moving normally, Swamp Thing may swamp lurk. To Swamp Lurk, place Swamp Thing on any unoccupied swamp or swamp water space withing 10 spaces of Swamp Thing.

Also, this needs rewording, and I think it should be like stealth dodge:
Plant Matter
When defending against an attack from a non-adjacent figure, one shield will block all damage.

Or, if you really want to:

Plant Matter
Swamp Thing cannot be targeted by an attack from a non-adjacent figure.

I'm a fan of classic Swamp Thing (as a kid, I had the first few issues) and I've also read a compilation of what Alan Moore did in the 80s. Swamp Thing is tremedously strong. In the comics, he's always pulling his punches so he doesn't outright kill people (even Batman!) in one punch. I wanted him to be able to do a lot of damage (I even thought about upping his attack to 9) but only to one figure at a time.

For the unlimited movement range on THE GREEN, I got that from Alan Moore's run where he can travel around the world and to other planets through The Green.

As for my wording on Plant Matter, I wanted him to not be affected by normal bullets or arrows but still be affected by special attacks. I thought about the "not able to be targeted" wording but I wanted him to still be targeted for special attacks.

I hope that explains what I was thinking and thanks for all the suggestions!

Ok I get your directive now. But still, 8 attack can easily kill someone in 1 hit. Maybe 7. As for Plant Matter, if you don't want special attacks, jut take my second wording and add "When Swamp Thing is defending against A NORMAL ATTACK from a non-adjacent..." That should fix it. Oh, and I favor hte first bit of art too.


EDIT: I have a feeling he'll be really powerful. 7-8 attack, traversing the whole map instantly, he's a bomb! My estimation right now is sitting at 400 points.

 

[quozl]

Re: C3G Swamp Thing: Design Phase

Check out my post for some figure pics.

Thanks! Also, is the mini actually a Medium 6?

 

[Sherman Davies]

Re: C3G Swamp Thing: Design Phase

Since Plant Matter is essentially Thorian Speed, shouldn't it just use the same wording?

 

[Scapemage]

Re: C3G Swamp Thing: Design Phase

Check out my post for some figure pics.

Thanks! Also, is the mini actually a Medium 6?

No he's 5. And I can't believe I didn't think of thorian Speed before.

EDIT: Oh, and if you would be so kind as to add the art to the first post I would greatly appreciate it.

 

[Balantai]

Re: C3G Swamp Thing: Design Phase

Great card, Quozl.

I like his base stats. Eight attack seems pretty solid for Swamp Thing. It'll put him on even ground with Grundy and I like that. I do think that Swamp Lurk and Regenerate are too powerful of a combination. If your Swamp Thing is injured, you can "move" to the other side of the battlefield and regenerate. By the time your opponent made his way over to you, if you weren't full health, you can pop back over to the other side of the battlefield and continue regenerating. For this reason alone, I would consider putting a cap on the movement.

PLANT MATTER
When attacked with a normal attack from a non-adjacent figure, all damage is automatically blocked.

For Plant Matter, the wording really doesn't feel official. How about:

When defending against a normal attack from a non-adjacent figure, you may add 2 automatic skulls to whatever is rolled.

This way, someone who's normal attack represents a gun or bow would be blocked 90% of the time, but someone like Galactus who might have a ranged normal attack or 10 could still hurt him.

Other than that, I somewhat expected a Swamp Strength type ability, but it certainly isn't necessary. Overall, great job, Quozl.

 

[Scapemage]

Re: C3G Swamp Thing: Design Phase

Great card, Quozl.

I like his base stats. Eight attack seems pretty solid for Swamp Thing. It'll put him on even ground with Grundy and I like that. I do think that Swamp Lurk and Regenerate are too powerful of a combination. If your Swamp Thing is injured, you can "move" to the other side of the battlefield and regenerate. By the time your opponent made his way over to you, if you weren't full health, you can pop back over to the other side of the battlefield and continue regenerating. For this reason alone, I would consider putting a cap on the movement.

PLANT MATTER
When attacked with a normal attack from a non-adjacent figure, all damage is automatically blocked.

For Plant Matter, the wording really doesn't feel official. How about:

When defending against a normal attack from a non-adjacent figure, you may add 2 automatic skulls to whatever is rolled.

This way, someone who's normal attack represents a gun or bow would be blocked 90% of the time, but someone like Galactus who might have a ranged normal attack or 10 could still hurt him.

Other than that, I somewhat expected a Swamp Strength type ability, but it certainly isn't necessary. Overall, great job, Quozl.

What happened to Thorian Speed wording for Plant Matter?
PLANT MATTER
Opponents' figures must be adjacent to Swamp Thing to attack him with a normal attack.

And I didn't even see Regenerate! Going with what Balantai said, ewith Regenerate I see him easily at 450-500 points. Don't you think that's a little much?

As mentioned before, I'd cap The Green at 10 and replace Regenerate with some sort of Swamp Strength ability.

 

[quozl]

Re: C3G Swamp Thing: Design Phase

Other than that, I somewhat expected a Swamp Strength type ability, but it certainly isn't necessary. Overall, great job, Quozl.

Thanks! With the three powers so short, a fourth power could be added giving him Swamp Strength. I just thought the other three powers were more important but I wouldn't mind adding a fourth power if others are for it.

EDIT: I also changed The Green so he no longer has an unlimited movement range. Swamp Thing may now move up to 12 spaces away.

 

[johnny139]

Re: C3G Swamp Thing: Design Phase

Hmm... not a bad design, but, yeah, too powerful between the movement and regeneration. I'd either put a cap on the movement (ten, maybe twelve spaces?) or some sort of restriction on regeneration (only on turns where he hasn't moved, or hasn't used The Green?).

His stats seem solid; high attack, which is fitting (wouldn't hurt to bring it to 7, but 8's a good choice, too). Low defense/high life. Not sure what Plant Matter is about, though... what's the argument for it, as an ability?

 

[quozl]

Re: C3G Swamp Thing: Design Phase

Not sure what Plant Matter is about, though... what's the argument for it, as an ability?

Normal bullets and other projectiles don't hurt him. He has no organs to damage since he is composed of entirely plant matter. Only chopping him up or causing him to explode can really damage him.

 

[Scapemage]

Re: C3G Swamp Thing: Design Phase

Not sure what Plant Matter is about, though... what's the argument for it, as an ability?

Normal bullets and other projectiles don't hurt him. He has no organs to damage since he is composed of entirely plant matter. Only chopping him up or causing him to explode can really damage him.

Yeah, but plants are living things..... anyways, 12 seems reasonable, but I still think Regeneration rockets his points up by at least 50.

Another suggestion from me. To keep him balanced, I suggest these stats to accompany the current powers:

Life 6
Move 5
Range 1
Attack 8
Defense 2

Of course if regeneration is removed, lowering these stats isn't as neccesary.

 

[johnny139]

Re: C3G Swamp Thing: Design Phase

Not sure what Plant Matter is about, though... what's the argument for it, as an ability?

Normal bullets and other projectiles don't hurt him. He has no organs to damage since he is composed of entirely plant matter. Only chopping him up or causing him to explode can really damage him.

Then I was going to suggest it only affect normal attacks, but it seems you've already covered that! Sounds good.

So, yeah, no other problems I can spot other than adding some limits.

 

[quozl]

Re: C3G Swamp Thing: Design Phase

To keep him balanced, I suggest these stats to accompany the current powers:

Life 6
Move 5
Range 1
Attack 8
Defense 2

Of course if regeneration is removed, lowering these stats isn't as neccesary.

I think that may be a bit too low but I'm not that great at estimating points. I'm thinking he's around Abomination's level right now so he should be around 320-350 points.

I also edited in the part about no leaving engagement attacks when using The Green.

 

[Scapemage]

Re: C3G Swamp Thing: Design Phase

To keep him balanced, I suggest these stats to accompany the current powers:

Life 6
Move 5
Range 1
Attack 8
Defense 2

Of course if regeneration is removed, lowering these stats isn't as neccesary.

I think that may be a bit too low but I'm not that great at estimating points. I'm thinking he's around Abomination's level right now so he should be around 320-350 points.

I also edited in the part about no leaving engagement attacks when using The Green.

Bringing his cost up even more. He'd be at about Abombination's level if he didn't have Regenerate or The Green. Basically, you want low defence balanced by Thorian speed and by Regenerate, and high life. Instead, you have high life, medium defence, greatly advantaged by Thorian speed and Regenerate, plus 8 attack and a movement power. He's at Superman's level right now.

EDIT: Oh, and this is meant to be constructive criticism, as I see where you're trying to go and love it, but he seems overpowerd that's all.

 

[quozl]

Re: C3G Swamp Thing: Design Phase

Oh, and this is meant to be constructive criticism, as I see where you're trying to go and love it, but he seems overpowerd that's all.

Don't worry, I'm definitely taking it constructively! I'm going to wait until others weigh in before I change that though.

Although, Superman's power level isn't far off from Swamp Thing in the comics.

 

[johnny139]

Re: C3G Swamp Thing: Design Phase

Although, Superman's power level isn't far off from Swamp Thing in the comics.

Yeah, I love the comic where Superman's got that meteor thing and Swamp Thing has to stop him from going crazy and destroying the swamp and stuff.

Good story.

 

[Scapemage]

Re: C3G Swamp Thing: Design Phase

Swamp Thing comics read: 0
Superman comics read: very few
Total comics read (all series): not many

My point being, the bulk of my information on any superhero comes from pretty much everything except comics: movies, tv, people, internet. So if ther's a specific theme from comics, I don't know much about it. Basically, from what I know, I thought Superman was the strongest super out there (excluding the few enemies that can match him), but if Swamp Thing lives up to par, so be it.


EDIT: Do they still print Swamp Thing comics? (I guess that's a better question for my friend's mom's friend who draws Swamp Thing) If so, Xmas subscription!

 

[quozl]

Re: C3G Swamp Thing: Design Phase

My comic reading is also very sparse. However, I had a few of the original run of Swamp Thing back when I was a kid and they made a big impression on me. This book (which I happened to just pick up from the library) contains the entire original run:

http://www.amazon.com/Roots-Swamp-C...r_1_10?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1281719996&sr=1-10

After that, it was revived by Alan Moore in the 80s and there are quite a few compilation books out there for his stuff. I read the first of his compilations (that I also found at the library). Personally, I didn't like what he did to the character as he made Swamp Thing inhuman so the horror didn't resonate as much.

The comics continued after Moore's run but I haven't read them. They also recently announced they were bringing Swamp Thing back into the DC universe line of comics rather than their "indie" line.

 

[Scapemage]

Re: C3G Swamp Thing: Design Phase

My comic reading is also very sparse. However, I had a few of the original run of Swamp Thing back when I was a kid and made a big impression on me. This book (which I happened to just pick up from the library) contains the entire original run:

http://www.amazon.com/Roots-Swamp-C...r_1_10?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1281719996&sr=1-10

After that, it was revived by Alan Moore in the 80s and there are quite a few compilation books out there for his stuff. I read the first of his compilations (that I also found at the library). Personally, I didn't like what he did to the character as he made Swamp Thing inhuman so the horror didn't resonate as much.

The comics continued after Moore's run but I haven't read them. They also recently announced they were bringing Swamp Thing back into the DC universe line of comics rather than their "indie" line.

Sweet! I've got to find that book! Whenever the movie they're making comes out, that should rock if they do it right.

 

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Re: C3G Swamp Thing: Design Phase

I think Swamp Thing is overpowered as well. Part of our goal is to NOT make customs unbeatable by squads and regular 'Scape units. I think with the ability to a)teleport, b)heal, c)do massive amounts of damage, and d) avoid half of all ranged attacks, he is on the broken side. I am not saying he is broken, just that he is leaning more that way, than balanced. I think his powers are very thematic, but if you take a couple suggestions, he could be really good. I would say to add the Swamp Strength, but lower his Defense to 2 and his Attack to 6. With Height on Swamp he still gets 8 and 4, really good stats, plus he can choose to heal. If you don't want to lower his defense, his life could be lowered instead. Remember what Matthelm said, "Don't fall in love with your ideas too much." Honestly, I think this is one of the most difficult things for a C3G designer to fight, when we design our favorite guy, we want him to be so awesome he has no weakness. That's why I haven't touched Spider-man yet.

 

[quozl]

Re: C3G Swamp Thing: Design Phase

Thanks, Spidey!

What point cost do you see him at with the Swamp Strength added and Attack and Defense lowered by one?

 

[Griffin]

Re: C3G Swamp Thing: Design Phase

THE GREEN
Instead of moving, you may place Swamp Thing adjacent to an Evergreen Tree or Jungle Piece or on any swamp or grass space up to 12 spaces away. If Swamp Thing is engaged when using The Green, he will not take any leaving engagement attacks.​

PLANT MATTER
Opponents’ figures must be adjacent to Swamp Thing to attack him with a normal attack.​

REGENERATE
After taking a turn with Swamp Thing, remove 1 Wound Marker from this Army Card.

I don't think Plant Matter is very interesting or fun enough to be here on the card. Also, Swamp Thing gets shot plenty of times, so I don't think the theme is a good match either.

Regenerate; another official power. :yawn: How about only allowing that power to work if he is on a swamp, swamp water, or water space? That would be more thematically accurate, and an interesting deviation from the rut of "official-powerdom".
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