The Book of Super-Ape (Igor)

[tcglkn]

Re: The Book of Super-Ape (Igor): Design

Thanks Bats. Whenever you get the time is fine.

I also went ahead and updated his personality to Loyal as I think that fits more than Feral.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of Super-Ape (Igor): Design

Yeah, Loyal makes sense for all the Super Apes.

 

[tcglkn]

Re: The Book of Super-Ape (Igor): Design

Thanks. He's gonna be best when teamed with the other two Apes and Red Ghost. Glad you liked him.

Yeah, I don't know the character, but the mechanic sounds really excellent. If you're happy with the theming, I like what you're doing here.

I know he's kinda an obscure design so I've included a short bio for your convenience.

Character Bio - A member of Red Ghost's Super-Apes. After the Red Ghost purposefully exposed himself and his apes to cosmic rays, Igor the baboon was granted higher intelligence and the ability to shape shift into almost anything, including turning his arms into firearms capable of shooting energy blasts.

NAME = Super-Ape

SECRET IDENTITY = Igor

SPECIES = Simian
UNIQUENESS = Unique Hero
CLASS = Minion
PERSONALITY = Feral

SIZE/HEIGHT = Small 3

LIFE = 5

MOVE = 7
RANGE = 5
ATTACK = 1
DEFENSE = 2

POINTS = 130?

SHAPESHIFTING
Start the game with four brown Shapeshift Markers. At the start of the round you may place or remove any number of Shapeshift Markers on this card. Add one to this Super-Ape's Attack and Defense numbers and subtract one from this Super-Ape's Move and Range numbers for each Shapshift Marker on this card. A maximum of 4 Shapeshift Markers can be placed on this card.

[Great mechanic! You could go with 3 markers instead of 4 (since I don't see people using the non-markered form much at all), but this does create a great effect. Love the idea.]

Again, I don't know the character, but a really fun power. Nicely done! Best, V

 

[tcglkn]

Re: The Book of Super-Ape (Igor): Design

Super Ape (Igor)

Very sneaky, tcglkn! You know how fond I am of designs that have variable power levels during a game, so you're playing to my weak spot.

The design pretty much speaks for itself, and I don't see any mechanical issues. But I did write all the stats based on 0-4 Markers:

7 / 5 / 1 / 2
6 / 4 / 2 / 3
5 / 3 / 3 / 4
4 / 2 / 4 / 5
5 / 1 / 5 / 6

So you have a design that can vary between a weak, but highly mobile, ranged figure; and a strong melee bruiser. I can actually see changing this based on varying maps and conditions. When facing engagement, you'll want to use all the markers for power. When unengaged, you can dump the markers and use his movement to quickly gain height and exploit his range.

I like his Life of 5. A Life of 4 would likely discourage me from having less than 2 markers just to protect against a knockout, though knockouts in Super Scape are unavoidable. Then again, I think if I faced squads or a multi-strike attacker, I'd want at least 2 Markers.

I know I'm "thinking out loud," but I wanted to send you my deliberations to give you some level of feedback on my own thoughts in how I see the use of his Shapeshifting. One risk I see in a design with multiple powers is you don't want a design to be steered to only one obvious choice where the other choices become superfluous. Based on my own thoughts, I think you've got a winner.

Never thought I'd see a monkey faction in Super Scape, though.

Thanks david. This guy is gonna work well with his other Super-Ape teammates and Red Ghost so this is just the start of that team. I'm glad you like him as is though.

 

[tcglkn]

Re: The Book of Super-Ape (Igor): Design

Something interesting I just thought of: Zatanna would be a good counter here as she could lower his attack and defense potential limiting him to speed and range.

 

[tcglkn]

Re: The Book of Super-Ape (Igor): Design

The theme (for mechanical purposes and flow in the power) is that he's starting with Energy blasters and shifting into different forms all the way up to a strong mallet or something for melee. What I find the beauty of this power is it really leave his shapeshifting open to the imagination.

I hope that helps you get the theme and reasoning behind the power.

Thanks for the quick response.

Gameplay for this guy sounds really interesting. I always like power up/down trade off decisions. I think it would be fun.

But I don't get the theme...why does having four markers make the range go down? If his range is five with zero shapeshift markers, and then he puts one marker on the card to shapeshift his arms into energy guns, why does his range go down to four?

I know he's kinda an obscure design so I've included a short bio for your convenience.

Character Bio - A member of Red Ghost's Super-Apes. After the Red Ghost purposefully exposed himself and his apes to cosmic rays, Igor the baboon was granted higher intelligence and the ability to shape shift into almost anything, including turning his arms into firearms capable of shooting energy blasts.

NAME = Super-Ape

SECRET IDENTITY = Igor

SPECIES = Simian
UNIQUENESS = Unique Hero
CLASS = Minion
PERSONALITY = Feral

SIZE/HEIGHT = Small 3

LIFE = 5

MOVE = 7
RANGE = 5
ATTACK = 1
DEFENSE = 2

POINTS = 130?

SHAPESHIFTING
Start the game with four brown Shapeshift Markers. At the start of the round you may place or remove any number of Shapeshift Markers on this card. Add one to this Super-Ape's Attack and Defense numbers and subtract one from this Super-Ape's Move and Range numbers for each Shapshift Marker on this card. A maximum of 4 Shapeshift Markers can be placed on this card.

 

[Hahma]

Re: The Book of Super-Ape (Igor): Design

Good answers Tickle. I don't know this Ape, but you helped explain the theme and what's going on with him during his Shapeshifting.

 

[tcglkn]

Re: The Book of Super-Ape (Igor): Design

If you didn't get it, you should have asked!

I kinda expected more people to ask since it is such a broad power, but I like how that allows it to be reused more and leaves it more open to the player's imagination and situation in the battle.

 

[Hahma]

Re: The Book of Super-Ape (Igor): Design

Well I had figured he had some kind of ranged weapon and then could shapshift and somehow be beefier and stronger to pound people

 

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Re: The Book of Super-Ape (Igor): Design

I figured he was stretching a la Mr. Fantastic and his muscles didn't have the weight behind them they normally would.

All of which leads me to believe the Tickle is right and the power leaves things to the player's imagination.

 

[Griffin]

Re: The Book of Super-Ape (Igor): Design

THIN APE (Igor)

Spoiler Alert!

FAT APE (Peotor)

Spoiler Alert!

BIG APE (Miklho)

Spoiler Alert!

RED GHOST

Spoiler Alert!

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of Super-Ape (Igor): Design

C3G INITIAL PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT (SUPER APE (IGOR))

- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them.
PASS

- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the Game.
PASS

- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding.
PASS

- SYNERGIES TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit to powerful or too weak.
PASS

- POWER CHECK/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and What are the stipulations on the power if there are any.
PASS

- FUN TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play.
PASS

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play against.
PASS

- DRAFTING TEST/ Consider whether or not this design is worth drafting.
PASS

- USAGE TEST/ Consider whether or not all of the powers on this card were used or at least usable.
PASS

- STRATEGY TEST/ Consider whether or not the design offers any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game.
PASS

Heavy Hitter or Mid-Level Hero Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes
- What should be the unit's point value? 130
- Give a brief overview. He tore up Penguin and performed well against Madame HYDRA, but Pyro and Boomerang felt closest to him, and Jonah Hex felt clearly superior.

Spoiler Alert!

TEST 1
Map: Custom
Units: Igor vs. Penguin (120)
Igor skunked Penguin here. He had 1 Marker in Round 1, and got in a 2 skull shot from range for the first strike that Penguin whiffed against defensively. Penguin shot twice with his Umbrella gun, but Igor was on a shadow space and blocked both shots. In Round 2, Igor was up to 4 Markers. He won initiative, engaged Penguin, and knocked him out.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Igor with Full Life wins Turn 1, Round 2.

TEST 2
Map: Custom
Units: Igor vs. Penguin (120)
This one played out much the same. Going with 1 Marker in Round 1 helps Igor get there fast but stay alive, then 4 Markers in Round 2 helps him easily outmatch a guy like Penguin.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Igor with 1 Wound wins Turn 2, Round 2.

TEST 3
Map: Custom
Units: Igor vs. Pyro (120)
Igor placed Markers the same as he did against Penguin. Pyro got in an early wound on Igor with his special attack before Igor shifted into something more defensive, then went 3 of 3 on Engulf rolls, which was huge here, and snuck in the last wound with his special attack. Igor didn’t roll that well in melee here either. Pyro won initiative in Round 2.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Pyro with 2 Wounds wins Turn 3, Round 2.

TEST 4
Map: Custom
Units: Igor vs. Pyro (120)
This one went very similarly, except that Pyro only went 2 of 3 on Engulf rolls. Igor whiffed once on 5 attack dice, which was a costly turn of events.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Pyro with 2 Wounds wins Turn 3, Round 2.

TEST 5
Map: Custom
Units: Igor vs. Boomerang (130)
Boomerang didn’t need any help from his returning boomerangs to score three wounds on Igor from height in the early going (that flying really made a lot of difference for getting position and first strike). Igor bulked up in Round 2, though (taking the same Shapeshifting Marker approach as he has so far) and was suddenly a lot tougher for Boomerang to wound. Meanwhile, he pummeled Boomerang in only two attacks of 5 dice.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Igor with 4 Wounds wins Turn 2, Round 2.

TEST 6
Map: Custom
Units: Igor vs. Boomerang (130)
Igor started with 2 Markers in Round 1 this time to try to prevent Boomerang from wounding him so easily early on, but it didn’t work, and he ended up with 4 wounds going into Round 2. He did sneak in on hit with 3 attack dice on Boomerang in Round 1, though, which was big. Boomerang won initiative for Round 2, though, which helped him get in 2 attacks to Igor’s 1 in that round. Had it gone the other way, I think Igor (with his usual 4 Markers for Round 2) would have won, but instead he whiffed against Boomerang’s second attack and bit it.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Boomerang with 3 Wounds wins Turn 2, Round 2.

TEST 7
Map: Custom
Units: Igor vs. Jonah Hex (130)
Jonah is a bear in one-on-one since it basically gives him +1 attack/defense at all times. Igor tried to get clever by going with no Markers early on for ultimate threat range, but he didn’t manage to hurt Jonah and took 2 wounds from Jonah’s single attack on him in Round 1, so it didn’t really pay off.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Jonah Hex with 2 Wounds wins Turn 2, Round 3.

TEST 8
Map: Custom
Units: Igor vs. Jonah Hex (130)
This went much the same, except Igor had 2 Markers in Round 1 and managed to avoid any wounds that round. In melee Jonah still proved superior, though.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Jonah Hex with 2 Wounds wins Turn 2, Round 2.

TEST 9
Map: Custom
Units: Igor vs. Madame HYDRA (140)
Without her HYDRA Agents, Madame HYDRA’s not so tough. Igor used 2 Markers in Round 1 and 4 Markers in Round 2 to beat her.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Igor with 2 Wounds wins Turn 2, Round 2.

TEST 10
Map: Custom
Units: Igor vs. Madame HYDRA (140)
This went much the same. Madame HYDRA put 3 wounds on Igor from range and height in Round 1, then Igor went to 4 Markers in Round 2 (up from 2) and beat her up while she futilely tried to hit 2 skulls for her venom.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Igor with 3 Wounds wins Turn 3, Round 2.

_____________________________________________________________


Squad Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes
- What should be the unit's point value? 150?
- Give a brief overview. Cops just couldn’t do much with their attacks of 2.
Map: Custom
Units: Igor vs. Beat Cops x2 (130)

Spoiler Alert!

Igor went with 2 Markers in Round 1 and 4 Markers after that. After he got height and engaged enough Cops, they were simply outmatched. And their range wasn’t long enough to keep him at bay for long had they wanted to play cat and mouse.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Igor with 1 Wound wins Turn 3, Round 4.

_____________________________________________________________


Squad Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes
- What should be the unit's point value? 100?
- Give a brief overview. Hired Guns have the attack power to tear up any single hero.
Map: Custom
Units: Igor vs. Hired Guns (130)

Spoiler Alert!

Igor didn’t last long enough to bulk up. The Hired Guns tore through him in Round 1. I considered placing more than 2 Markers on him early for extra defense, but I didn’t want a lack of mobility to cede height to the Hired Guns and make them even more dangerous. They got off the first strike though, and it was nasty, killing Igor by the time the third Hired Gun was finished attacking!
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Hired Guns with all 4 figures left win Turn 2, Round 1.

_____________________________________________________________


Army Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes
- What should be the unit's point value? 130?
- Give a brief overview. Absolute slaughter! Though that was more on account of the GCWs than Igor. It was hard to ascertain his value here since this was such an unexpected mismatch.
Map: Custom
Units: Igor (130), Gorilla City Warriors x2 (250), Gorilla Man (160), Solovar (260) (800) vs. Luke Cage (190), Wolverine (280), Jubilee (60), Iron Fist (260) (790)

Spoiler Alert!

Igor, fully Markered up, put 2 wounds on Iron Fist, which was very helpful, but the GCWs regularly getting 3 attacks of 6 a turn plus throwing in a hero attack is what made this such a jungle stomp. Luke Cage whiffed early in Round 2 against a 3 skull attack from a GCW. Gorilla-Man rolled 3 skulls with his machine gun to finish Luke off. The GCWs and Gorilla-Man took out both Wolverine and Jubilee in Round 3 before they could get off any attacks. It was brutal. Early in Round 2, Luke and Iron Fist went on a little run killing 3 GCWs and I thought they had a chance, but the last three ran right up (inspired by Solovar) and it was just nasty!
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Simians with Full Life Igor, Gorilla Man, and Solovar, and 3 of 6 Gorilla City Warriors remaining win Turn 3, Round 3.

_____________________________________________________________


Army Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes
- What should be the unit's point value? 130
- Give a brief overview. Happily this time the slaughter went the other way! Still, Kang and Igor almost made it a match at the end.
Map: Custom
Units: Gorilla City Warriors x3 (375), Gorilla Grodd (225), Igor (130), Kang (270) (1,000) vs. Mister Fantastic, Human Torch (Johnny), Invisible Woman, Thing (1,000)

Spoiler Alert!

This one swung in Round 1, when Human Torch with 1 wound managed to safely disengage from 3 GCWs and Gorilla Grodd, taking 3 wounds but killing all the GCWs and putting 1 wound on Grodd in the process (he’d already put 1 wound on Grodd earlier with a ranged attack), then going Supernova in the enemy startzone and putting 1 wound on Igor, and killing another 5 GCWs, for a total of 2 wounds on Unique Heroes and 8 GCW kills in one turn! And even nullified Human Torch managed to punch out the last of the GCWs in Round 2.
Gorilla Grodd used his fists and mind control to whittle Invisible Woman down to 1 life before Thing came in and exacted some Clobberin’ Time on him. Kang came through next, taking out Human Torch first, then Invisible Woman, then putting 2 wounds on Thing before falling to Thing and Mister Fantastic’s persistent attacks.
This left Igor, who quickly got wrapped up by Mister Fantastic at height disadvantage, but used his 4 Marker prowess to put 3 wounds on Mister Fantastic before Thing finally came in and took him out in one 9 dice attack.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Mister Fantastic with 3 Wounds and Thing with 2 Wounds win Turn 3, Round 5.

GCWs can be a bit swingy, but overall I like Igor at 130 points.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of Super-Ape (Igor): Design

I think we want to change the wording on the Shapeshifting power to something like this:

SHAPESHIFTING
At the start of the round you may place or remove any number of brown Shapeshift Markers on this card. Add one to this Super-Ape's Attack and Defense numbers and subtract one from this Super-Ape's Move and Range numbers for each Shapshift Marker on this card. A maximum of 4 Shapeshift Markers can be placed on this card.

Basically just cut the first line and added the "brown" descriptor back to the first reference for the markers.

Tests all wrapped up here. 130 feels good.

 

[tcglkn]

Re: The Book of Super-Ape (Igor): Design

Sounds good to me. Thanks for testing him out for me so quickly. I updated the OP with Griffin's Pics and Bats' test and the SP with Bats edits.

24 hours on the clock for Pre-Yeas to Playtesting at 130 points.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of Super-Ape (Igor): Design

pre-yea. It wasn't too busy a day at work today and there's not too much more I can do for moving until we get the key on Saturday. I'm hoping to knock out my current LD's playtest tomorrow and then maybe Peotor this weekend (though that might be when the crazy moving business starts!).

 

[tcglkn]

Re: The Book of Super-Ape (Igor): Design

maybe Peotor this weekend (though that might be when the crazy moving business starts!).

Just get it if you can. I'm so far ahead right now I'm not in any rush. Moving is obviously more important than Peotor.

 

[Margloth]

Re: The Book of Super-Ape (Igor): Design

Pre-yea

 

[Hahma]

Re: The Book of Super-Ape (Igor): Design

Looks good. GCW's are nasty when going against melee units for sure.

Pre-Yea

 

[tcglkn]

Re: The Book of Super-Ape (Igor): Design

I propose we move to playtesting at 130

Down to SirG, A3n and Griffin.

 

[Griffin]

Re: The Book of Super-Ape (Igor): Design

yesh

 

[A3n]

Re: The Book of Super-Ape (Igor): Design

Yea

 

[SirGalahad]

Re: The Book of Super-Ape (Igor): Design

yea

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of Super-Ape (Igor): Design

This moves to playtesting!

 

[Griffin]

Re: The Book of Super-Ape (Igor): Playtesting

C3G INITIAL PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT Igor

- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them.
I think the order of what the text says should be switched so that the Move and Range are subtracted from first, and then the Attack and Defense are added to second. A small suggestion, but I think it would help to comprehend it as you look at the stats on a card and read it from left to right and top to bottom.

- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the Game.
Pass

- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding.
Pass

- SYNERGIES TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit too powerful or too weak.
Pass

- POWER CHECK/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and What are the stipulations on the power if there are any.
Pass

- FUN TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play.
Pass

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play against.
Pass

- DRAFTING TEST/ Consider whether or not this design is worth drafting.
Pass

- USAGE TEST/ Consider whether or not all of the powers on this card were used or at least usable.
Pass

- STRATEGY TEST/ Consider whether or not the design offers any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game.
Pass

Army Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes.
- What should be the unit's point value? 130.
- Give a brief overview. Fun and easy to manage or customize as you have need for him.
Map: Custom.
Units: Igor, Grodd, Gorilla City Warriors x2 - VS - Superman and Batman.

Spoiler Alert!

Igor and the Gorillas move out with Igor fully charged up for melee attacks and high defense. They tangled with Sueprman first and while Superman was slowly taking down one GCW at a time, they were nicking him for wounds and Igor at a round switch, reduced his markers so that he only had 3. This gave him a small range of 2, and allowed him to "shoot" down on Superman from ranged height. Superman finally broke through the ranks and started killing Igor When GCW and Grodd moved up and mind controlled Superman to land in a circle of the last three GCWs. Superman killed them and Igor, and hurt Grodd just before Grodd crushed him. Batman assaulted Grodd with Batarangs, and that worked for one wound, but Grodd was angry and hit Batman for 5 skulls and Batman wiffed Defense and E-strike .
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Grodd wins with 4 wounds.

_____________________________________________________________​

Army Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? yes.
- What should be the unit's point value? 130 or 140. That big attack of 5 does match Batman's normal attack.
- Give a brief overview. Fun and easy to use with that one power. I like simple designs on occasion.
Map: Custom.
Units: Igor, Joker, Two-Face, Penguin, and Street Thugs x3 - VS - Gordon, Beat Cops x2, Batman I, Robin (Tim Drake), and Green Lantern (Hal).

Spoiler Alert!

Green Lantern went in first and engaged a few Thugs on his own so that he could hopefully frenzy but he didn't. He did kill a thug each turn though, but Penguin was dropping overhead with big SAs while the thugs were scrambling to find any height they could. Batman was signaled into the fight by Gordon later on and Batman started cleaning up Hal's leftovers, when Two-Face started rolling for his Heads you live power. Joker put all orders on Robin, and that wasn't so bad since Robin was already there in the fight, but Robin was ganged up on and killed by a couple of thugs and Penguin. Beat cops advanced and made the game interesting as they quickly took out the remaining thugs. Green Lantern had some fight in him left so he focused on killing Penguin who had been raising hell, then Igor decided to run interference for Joker and engaged the approaching Green Lantern and Igor was full up on markers giving him a very high attack that Green Lantern needed to ignore with his last battery. Next round, Joker put OMs on Green Lantern and Igor took him out. Batman was able to get one turn this round and he took Igor down to one life left and killed the wounded Two-Face with Batarangs. Then Igor managed to kill the wounded Batman. Next round, Gordon killed Igor with the cops moving up. Joker opened up with Wanna Hear another and killed a squad of cops in one turn. Then the cops opened fire and put 3 wounds on Joker. Joker failed his next attacks and the cops killed Joker.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Gordon and Cops win with 0 wounds on Gordon and 2 cops left.

 

[tcglkn]

Re: The Book of Super-Ape (Igor): Playtesting

Thanks Griff.