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The Book of Spoiler

Lord Pyre

Lord Pyre

...has moist legs
Site Supporter
The Book of Spoiler​

C3G DC PUBLIC EXCLUSIVE COLLECTION 8
SECRETS AND LIES​


C3G_Spoiler_comic.png

Comic PDF

C3G_Spoiler_mini.png

Mini PDF


The figure used for this unit is a Heroclix figure from the Legacy set.
Its model number and name are #001-003 / Spoiler.​

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Character Bio - Stephanie Brown is the daughter of the Cluemaster, one of Gotham City's third-rate criminals. Her father spent most of her childhood in jail or away from the family. He claims to be rehabilitated upon his return to Gotham, but Stephanie becomes furious when she discovers that he is actually returning to crime, this time not leaving his trademark clues behind. She decides something needs to be done. Stephanie tailors a costume for herself, and calls herself The Spoiler due to her attempts to "spoil" her father's plans. She learns where her father is hiding out, finds out his plans, and leaves clues so that the police and Batman could stop him. Robin tracks her down and, after a few brief confrontations, helps capture Cluemaster. Although she initially wishes to kill her father, Batman convinces her to allow him to be arrested. Eventually, she decides she likes being a superheroine, and she begins regular patrols as the Spoiler. (Wikipedia)
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-Rulings and Clarifications-
  • N/A
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-Combinations and Synergies-

Incoming Synergy:
Outgoing Synergy:
  • Spoiler make take a turn after a Sidekick Hero you control with her Sidekick Shadow special power. Current Sidekick Heroes.
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-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-
  • N/A
-Heroscapers Community Contributions-

Card Updates:
21 November 2020 - Bat-Grapple wording update
7 March 2021 - Class changed to Sidekick
 
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Re: The Book of Spoiler (Design Phase)

NAME = SPOILER

SECRET IDENTITY = STEPHANIE BROWN

SPECIES = HUMAN
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = SIDEKICK
PERSONALITY = RECKLESS

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 4

LIFE = 4

MOVE = 5
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 3
DEFENSE = 4

POINTS = 50

SIDEKICK SHADOW
After revealing an Order Marker on a Sidekick Hero you control and taking a turn with that Sidekick, if Spoiler is within 6 clear sight spaces of that Sidekick, you may take an immediate turn with Spoiler. You may not take any additional turns with other figures you control.

CRIME SPOILER
If you win initiative, you may choose a Crime Lord or Criminal adjacent to Spoiler to receive a wound.

BAT-GRAPPLE 3
Instead of her normal move, Spoiler may move up to 3 spaces with Bat-Grapple. When moving with Bat-Grapple, Spoiler has the Flying special power, but may not move up or down more than 30 levels in a single grapple, and will not take any leaving engagement attacks.
 
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Re: The Book of Spoiler (Design Phase)

Main things I want to figure out right now. Do we like Crime Spoiler as is? Are we fine with it being as niche as it is? She herself won't be very niche, especially with more sidekicks coming out, she'll make her way into any sort of army. Just that one power.
Also, Batgrapple or no Batgrapple? It would give her mobility, it might not be totally thematically accurate since she's not Robin when she's Spoiler (obviously :p ). Does she even need a grapple?

Stats I think are fine, unless someone objects.
 
Re: The Book of Spoiler (Design Phase)

I might want to see the downside of Crime Spoiler removed - make it just an "if you win" clause - if only for simplicity. No opinion on Bat-Grapple either way; not sure if it's thematic or not honestly.

Also, BIGGER PICTURE of Spoiler that's similar but a big blurrier... also THIS nice one of her face that's not really usable but I'd like to share anyways. :D
 
Re: The Book of Spoiler (Design Phase)

Really glad to see this design finally given some light. :up:

Will comment in the morning.
 
Re: The Book of Spoiler (Design Phase)

johnny139 said:
I might want to see the downside of Crime Spoiler removed - make it just an "if you win" clause - if only for simplicity. No opinion on Bat-Grapple either way; not sure if it's thematic or not honestly.

Also, BIGGER PICTURE of Spoiler that's similar but a big blurrier... also THIS nice one of her face that's not really usable but I'd like to share anyways. :D
Click to expand...

I like the risk part of Crime Spoiler.

Thanks for the pic! I know the one I have isn't a great one, not very many good pics of her to choose from.
 
Re: The Book of Spoiler (Design Phase)

I think that ending the round engaged to an enemy figure is risk enough, though, particularly for a relatively low-stat figure.
 
Re: The Book of Spoiler (Design Phase)

If she could wound more then one figure with Crime Spoiler it would make the risk more worthwhile. This power becomes less useful with each additional player.
 
Re: The Book of Spoiler (Design Phase)

johnny139 said:
I think that ending the round engaged to an enemy figure is risk enough, though, particularly for a relatively low-stat figure.
Click to expand...

This. I agree completely with dropping the negative aspect for this reason. Otherwise the power is completely neutral in terms of value, and maybe even a drawback overall. I prefer it to have some positive value if it's going to be niche like it is.

Also, to accentuate the risk involved in her being in melee, since her stats are very weak, I'd love to see her get some range so that she can attack from range and moving in close is more of a strategic decision to make something like Crime Spoiler work.

Also, I'd like to see the following change just for more coverage, just in case:

SIDEKICK SHADOW
After revealing an Order Marker on a Sidekick card you control and taking a turn with that Sidekick, if Spoiler is within 6 clear sight spaces of that Sidekick, you may take an immediate turn with Spoiler. You may not take any additional turns with other figures you control.

And, yeah, I'd say give her Bat-Grapple. She's always swinging around the rooftops at night. I'm happy imagining Tim let her borrow some gear. They never really did explain how some nobody from the suburbs got all the stuff she got anyway. And she's clearly a part of the Bat Family, so I think it's kosher.
 
Re: The Book of Spoiler (Design Phase)

Does she use range in the comics, though? I've never seen her throw anything, and she obviously doesn't have Batarangs.
 
Re: The Book of Spoiler (Design Phase)

Good question. If I were in Michigan, I could track down some old Robin comics to get a good answer ... It's been a while. Can anyone help with a definitive answer on that one?
 
Re: The Book of Spoiler (Design Phase)

Visual proof of Bat-Grapple, btw:

1432602-30.jpg
 
Re: The Book of Spoiler (Design Phase)

OK, I looked all over Comicvine and I think you're dead on about the ranged attack. I'm convinced. She should be melee.
 
Re: The Book of Spoiler (Design Phase)

I think this is a very nice design, and I hope that it sets a new record for efficiency. With that said, I have two things I would like to bring up:
Lord Pyre said:
CLASS = SIDEKICK

CRIME SPOILER
If you win initiative, you may choose a Crime Lord or Criminal adjacent to Spoiler to receive a wound. If you lose initiative and Spoiler is adjacent to a Crime Lord or Criminal, she receives a wound.
Click to expand...
I really don't see her as a Sidekick. In every instance that I have seen her, she is easily considered a Vigilante or a Crime-Fighter. I think I would rather her be a Crime-Fighter, as that sorta bridges the gap between them and the Vigilantes.

For clarity, I think that last line should read: "If you lose initiative and Spoiler is adjacent to one or more Crime Lord or Criminal, she receives a wound."
 
Re: The Book of Spoiler (Design Phase)

Griffin said:
I think this is a very nice design, and I hope that it sets a new record for efficiency. With that said, I have two things I would like to bring up:
Lord Pyre said:
CLASS = SIDEKICK

CRIME SPOILER
If you win initiative, you may choose a Crime Lord or Criminal adjacent to Spoiler to receive a wound. If you lose initiative and Spoiler is adjacent to a Crime Lord or Criminal, she receives a wound.
Click to expand...
I really don't see her as a Sidekick. In every instance that I have seen her, she is easily considered a Vigilante or a Crime-Fighter. I think I would rather her be a Crime-Fighter, as that sorta bridges the gap between them and the Vigilantes.

For clarity, I think that last line should read: "If you lose initiative and Spoiler is adjacent to one or more Crime Lord or Criminal, she receives a wound."
Click to expand...

Would "at least one ..." work? Or is "One or More" more standard?

We discussed the Sidekick thing in length in the Public thread, and we reached the consensus that sidekick was the way to go. :)
 
Re: The Book of Spoiler (Design Phase)

The public thread discussions don't preclude changes in design. I also don't see her as a sidekick. As the spoiler her main objective was to stop her father & didn't not set out to work with anybody to accomplish this. Sure Robin helped on occassions but it wasn't in a sidekick / mentor type arrangement. The only time I would say that she was a sidekick was in her time as Robin.
 
Re: The Book of Spoiler (Design Phase)

Here's LP's reasoning from the Public Design thread:
Lord Pyre said:
A few reasons.

We'd have to make up a new class since Crime Fighter and Vigilante don't fit her character. Not a real problem, but still.

She's at a sidekick power level, or weaker. She teams up with Robin, much like the Teen Titans and their (probable) sidekick synergies.

She WAS Robin at one point. She starts as Spoiler, is Robin for a while, gets fired, and is Spoiler again. Yeah, she was only Batman's sidekick for a little while, but she fits the role.

And she eventually becomes Batgirl, much like Dick is a sidekick and then becomes a whatever-IAmBatman-wants-him-to-be.

She's basically a "sidekick sidekick," so why call her anything else?

Oh, and it stops bonding chains, because the sidekick power says that you can't take a turn with any other sidekicks you control this turn.
Click to expand...

Lord Pyre said:
IAmBatman said:
I really think you could justify Vigilante, Sidekick, or Crime Fighter thematically for her. Given the write up, Sidekick probably works the best mechanically, since if you made her a Vigilante, her core power would become unnecessary.
Click to expand...

Like Johnny pointed out, it's just weird if she's a Vigilante. And being a Crime Fighter means being in league with Spider-man, Luke Cage, and Iron Man. Sure, weird synergies and all, but she's just a lower-than-street level hero in the Bat family that teams up with Robin.

EDIT: And I think that Titans synergies would be awesome for her, and much more fitting than Crime Fighter synergies.
Click to expand...

And here's Bats response:
IAmBatman said:
Yeah, I think this is how you sold me originally on Sidekick. :-D I could thematically justify the Vigilante Protection bonus and Gordon having her as his chosen Vigilante, but these are no easier to justify than justifying her as a Sidekick is, so might as go with what puts her in armies that make the most sense and offer the most value to the metagame. Having more Sidekicks released is worth much more to me than having more Vigilantes released at the moment (more to test future Sidekick synergies with, for one!).
Click to expand...
I don't know the character well in her time as Spoiler, but it seems to me that Sidekick is best for mechanics and works as well thematically as anything else.
 
Re: The Book of Spoiler (Design Phase)

The Sidekick issue is a contentious one that we might just have to poll out.

The other issue I think is worth more discussion or a poll is dropping that last line in Crime Spoiler. I know both Johnny and I are greatly in favor (see previous posts).

Other than those two points, I think we're golden here.
 
Re: The Book of Spoiler (Design Phase)

Lord Pyre said:
We'd have to make up a new class since Crime Fighter and Vigilante don't fit her character. Not a real problem, but still.
Click to expand...
Wow, do I ever disagree. She fights crime outside of the authority of the law. That makes her a Crime Fighter and Vigilante. Come on now. :poorpost:
She's at a sidekick power level, or weaker.
Click to expand...
That doesn't mean jack squat to me. We have lots of designs that are at "sidekick level" or weaker, and that simply does not qualify them as a Sidekick. What does qualify a character as a Sidekick? I'll tell you with a a question: Who is the character's mentor/partner?
She teams up with Robin, much like the Teen Titans and their (probable) sidekick synergies.
Click to expand...
Supergirl teams up with Superman, but that does not make her a Sidekick.

Doombots team up with Doctor Doom, but that does not make them his sidekick.

Betty Ross teams up with Doctor Banner, but that does not make her his sidekick.

Team ups are a part of the mentor/sidekick partnership, but it is not the defining point. What is the defining point? Not sure, but probably an emphasis on the Mentor/Pupil relationship.
She WAS Robin at one point. She starts as Spoiler, is Robin for a while, gets fired, and is Spoiler again. Yeah, she was only Batman's sidekick for a little while, but she fits the role.
Click to expand...
Yep! You are right. Sounds like she is definitely a Sidekick when she was Batman's Sidekick as Robin... but not as Spoiler. You just hit the nail on the head. She was fired as Batman's sidekick, and went back to being Spoiler, the Crime Fighter/Vigilante.
And she eventually becomes Batgirl, much like Dick is a sidekick and then becomes a whatever-IAmBatman-wants-him-to-be.
Click to expand...
Cool. She becomes a different character. But that has nothing to do with who the Spoiler character is.
She's basically a "sidekick sidekick," so why call her anything else?
Click to expand...
Robin is/was not her mentor. They worked together.

I have two issues where Robin helps Superman defeat some magically enhanced Vampires and Zombies. Their team up does not make Superman Robin's Sidekick.
Oh, and it stops bonding chains, because the sidekick power says that you can't take a turn with any other sidekicks you control this turn.
Click to expand...
I don't let power ideas rewrite who characters are. Just because you have an idea for a Sidekick power, doesn't mean you should start changing people into Sidekicks.
 
Re: The Book of Spoiler (Design Phase)

I think we can/should change that line to "other figures you control" anyway, so that should be a moot point.

Also, she'll clearly fit into the Sidekick/Titan faction just on the basis of bonding with Sidekicks, whether she is one or not.

I'm not keen on Crimefighter as an option for a couple of reasons - 1) Despite being able to "spoil" her dad's criminal attempts, she's not very good at fighting crime and 2) I'm not crazy about her joining the Luke Cage Fighter/Crime Fighter faction.

I think Vigilante would be OK (she's part of the Bat-family, she fights crime (though not well), and she's very dark and mysterious). I also think a fourth option, like "Delinquent" would work for her.

I do think she acts as Robin's Sidekick at times, but perhaps not on a regular enough basis to really "sell" that as her class. I do think we used the class Sidekick loosely in the past before, though, on one of my LDs, but at least there was a clear Mentor/mentee relationship in that one, which may not be as present here.
 
Re: The Book of Spoiler (Design Phase)

I'm not heavily in favor of Sidekick, but I am against either Crime Fighter or Vigilante. She doesn't seem to fit in with those characters synergy-wise.
 
Re: The Book of Spoiler (Design Phase)

How does she not fit into Vigilantes, synergy-wise?
 
Re: The Book of Spoiler (Design Phase)

I dunno. She doesn't seem like the sort of person that Gordon would be contacting or that would be able to lead Robin or Batgirl into battle.

She seems too "small time" to be a Vigilante, compared to guys like Batman, Punisher, Daredevil, Black Canary, so on.
 
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