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The Book of Silver Sable

Re: The Book of Silver Sable (Initial Posted)

Looking solid. I think using her with Bane & Deadshot would be a good combo in public testing. Bane adds to Sable's defense and gives Deadshot even more of a punch.

I think the faction will struggle a little as the list of bonding heroes is very attack-oriented. Not a whole lot of support powers there despite the large amount of bonding figures. FF Spidey might be a nice one for the defensive boost to get Sable out of a tight spot.
 
Re: The Book of Silver Sable (Initial Posted)

Interesting that the only game she lost was the Prowler one.
 
Re: The Book of Silver Sable (Initial Posted)

Yeah. Can't lay that totally at Prowler's feet, though; I think it's really all about how long before Silver goes down.

Anywho, let's send her to public testing.
 
Re: The Book of Silver Sable (VOTE for Public Tests)

yea
 
Re: The Book of Silver Sable (VOTE for Public Tests)

This passes.

Thanks folks!
 
Re: The Book of Silver Sable (Public Tests)

Rules question:


PRIVATE MILITARY CONTRACT
After revealing an Order Marker on the Army Card of a Unique Terrorist, Mastermind or Mercenary Hero you control, you may do either or both of the following:
  • Instead of moving with that Unique Hero, move any 3 Madripoor Mercenary figures you control;
  • Instead of attacking with that Unique Hero, attack with any 3 Madripoor Mercenary figures you control.
WILD PACK
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and instead of taking a turn with Silver Sable, you may choose up to two Unique Heroes you control that are Mercenaries or Outlaws. Silver Sable may be one of the chosen Heroes. Take a turn with each chosen Hero. Any other Hero taking a turn with this special power must start its turn within 6 clear sight spaces of Silver Sable. You may not take any additional turns.


Does the only move/attack with the Mercs instead of moving/attacking with the Hero considered taking a turn with them according to our rules? If no, then I reveal an OM on Silver Sable's card, take a turn with an Outlaw Hero, then take a turn with Silver Sable, move her up, choose not to attack with her and instead attack with 3 Mercs. I'm going to test this out is it's a desired interaction. Personally I like it since she runs a Merc outfit.
 
Re: The Book of Silver Sable (Public Tests)

Spoiler Alert!

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT ( Silver Sable )
Army Test 1
- Give a brief preview. Pretty simple idea here, Spider-Man can pull figures next to Bane for a beat down, while MACH-I gets in a free shot. Alternatively, ranged figures running away from Radioactive Man's adj auto-wounds can be pulled back next to him as well. MACH-I can also help move his allies up into place. The Wild Pack has been hired to put and end to some space pirates in this one.
Map: City Crater 2
Units: Silver Sable, Spider-Man, Bane, Radioactive Man, MACH-I (1000) vs. Hepzibah, Corsair, Raza Longknife, Ch’od, Korvus Rook’Shir (1000)
Spoiler Alert!

Recap: Radio is the early game champ as he charges forward and unleashes hell on the Pirates while the rest of the Outlaws stay back in a pod. The set-up for the Spidey-Bane combo worked out perfectly, Spidey pulled Korvus down from HG to get an att from HG while next to Bane, rolling 6 att dice vs. just 4 def dice, but then Spidey rolled just 2 skulls and was blocked doing no damage. After Corsair charged Bane trying to cut him down. Spidey was able to Web Sling him for the same treatment and rolled 4 skulls on 6 dice, doing 2Ws. MACH tried to move Sable to a safer position and Bane up into the spot she vacated, but this backfired when he failed to roll a skull for the 2nd att and Corsair moved into the spot Sable was previously in instead. Corsair couldn't cut down Bane though and Bane killed him, even though he wounded himself with a Venom injection before doing so. Raza then took out Radio and OM3 along with him. Ch'od charged into the fight at this point but missed terribly (1 skull on 7 dice), then Spidey Web Slung him like he did the others for 1W. Mach had to go engage Raza to try and keep him from shooting Sable, this worked as he managed to convince Raza to stay and fight rather than risk a LEA to go after Sable. Once Sable's flank was exposed though, Hepziba used blood tracking to dart in for an attack and took her out along with OM2! Spidey now can Web Sling Hepzibah, which he does and finishes her off. Ch'od continues to roll garbage att dice. At this point it just becomes the Spidey show for his team as he's the safest place for OM's. Korvus finishes off Bane and Raza takes out MACH, then Spidey finishes off Korvus. Next round Spidey takes out Raza after Web Slinging him to LG. Ch'od ends the round with a big att that hits for 3Ws though. It's a battle of 1 lifers entering the last round. Ch'od wins initiative, but Spidey survives and takes him out.
- Does it pass, Yes or No? yes
- What should be the unit's point value? Early game it felt like the Pirates had no way of competing with Sable's double turns and it could be a blow out. Bane boosted a lot of att and def rolls and the army I built for her felt really good in action. In the end, this one came down to the wire though, so I'd say 200 is a fair price. The weakness to exploit in her armies will be her, since she needs to be up near the action but isn't a tanky unit. Bane certainly helped keep her alive in this one, but I could have rolled some better def dice in general for her here.
_____________________________________________________________
Army Test 2
- Give a brief preview. So Weather Wizard is just there to give the rest of them some ranged cover while I move them up. The two big things being tested here are Domino with an easy Bane boost sitting next to her all the time & the Madripoor Mercs being able to move/attack instead of Silver Sable when she bonds with Domino. Should be a lot of fire power to contend with. Decided Silver Sable's Merc outfit was hired to protect something from the Decipticons! If Weather Wizard can just fog cover his allies to prevent even one use of Megatron's SA that will be a good investment.
Map: City Crater 2
Units: Silver Sable, Bane, Domino, Madripoor Mercs x3, Weather Wizard (1000) vs. Decepticons (1000)
Spoiler Alert!

Recap: R1: Ravage shot out and pounced on a Merc to draw first blood, then Domino and the Mercs (most of which were next to Bane) unloaded on him and he was destroyed. Soundwave moved up and took out a Merc next, and then Domino and the Mercs unloaded on him and almost took him out as well (6W in total, this included two perfect 4 skull att rolls by Mercs though attacking from HG w/o Bane). R2: Decepticons win initiative and Soundwave Disrupts their communications. SW takes HG, ejects Laserbeak, but WW Fog cover denies him his attack. Laserbeak & Soundwave both try to target Sable after she moved up next to Bane, both are blocked by Fog Cover. Sable hits Laserbeak for a couple of Ws, then Fog Cover fails and the Laserbeak/SW combo deal 3W to Sable. R3: Sable wins initiative, Domino takes out SW with a 4 skull att that deals exactly 1W. Laserbeak survives Domino's 2nd att & the 3 att from the Mercs, but 2 Mercs have engaged with him. Laserbeak had OM1 on his card for just this situation, opts to risk the 2 LEA (1W taken) and flies away back towards Megatron, uses O&R on Sable (avoiding the Fog Cover roll) and takes her out! OM2 lost on Sable. Megatron moves up, uses his P38 with Laserbeak, and destroys Domino in one shot after a failed Fog Cover roll! OM3 lost on Domino. What a turn of events in this one. Megatron moves and shoots at Bane next, but Fog Covers protects him. R4: WW moves up and takes out Laserbeak with some Lightening to start the round. Megatron takes HG, intimidates Bane, but Bane only has the X and he can't att anyone due to Fog Cover. Mercs surround Bane and unload, Megatron is rolling skulls on def as well and takes a quick 3W. Megatron then intimidates the Mercs (OM3 lost), and destroys WW in one shot. Megatron ends the round getting blocked by Bane. R5: Megatron gives Bane 3W. A couple of brave Mercs engage Megatron to help protect Bane, 1W inflicted. Megatron kicks a Merc. Mercs fail to damage Megatron. Megatron intimidates Bane again and finds the 3, shoots another Merc. R6: Two more Mercs engage with Megatron, 1W inflicted. Megatron intimidates the Mercs (OM2 lost) and kills one, then the other. Bane juices up (+2 att) and punches Megatron for 1W. Megatron deals exactly 3W to take out Bane, the last 3 Mercs stay to see it through to the end. R7: Mercs can't score a W, but since they out range Megatron they pulled back to force him off of HG. Megatron purses and att from a lower HG position, killing 1 Merc. One Merc engages while the other tries to get to HG, both att from even ground, no damage. Megatron intimidates the X away, kills another Merc. Last Merc takes HG and tries to win it, 4 skulls rolled!, but just 1W when 2 were needed. Megatron finishes it.
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes, although the Madripoor Mercs bonding with any Merc/Outlaw (especially a double att type like Domino or Deadpool) might need to be looked at a bit more. This one was close to being a landslide victory until the whole game turned on a couple of single combat die rolls. Bane being able to boost adj. Madripoor Mercs in addition to the Merc/Outlaw was pretty powerful.
- What should be the unit's point value? Another photo finish here, so she's looking pretty solid at 200 in my book. She'll have a big target on her head as putting her down is what turned this whole thing around for the Decepticons. They ignored WW, Bane, & Domino to focus on shutting down the double turns first, then dealt with the others. Bane boosting her defense up to 6 is really useful to help keep her alive a bit longer when heavily targeted. Weather Wizard helped with that as well. As a leader type figure you could consider bumping her life up by 1, but then points would need to go up a good chuck as well since her being alive has a pretty big game impact.
 
Re: The Book of Silver Sable (Public Tests)

Thanks YK!

Looking good! Results don't get much closer than that.

I'll ask that the next tester try out the Madripoor Mercs again so we can keep an eye on that. I'd rather not have to box them out if we don't have to, but we can figure something out if necessary. I do think at least that Bane + Sable + Madripoor Mercs + (Bonding Merc) is kind of an expensive machine, and it's fragile relying on Sable. Lots of firepower though.
 
Re: The Book of Silver Sable (Public Tests)

Yeah, I do like the set up. Feels like a well oiled Merc company machine at the start of the game. Then it starts to unravel once the leader who pulled them all together goes down. The Mercs not being able to swap out move/att with Bane hurt them down the stretch once they were the only ones left. Makes her presence felt as the leader who is running things. It was just a ton of damage at the start when Ravage dropped in one OM, then Soundwarp almost dropped in the very next OM. His Disruption power saved them and not many other armies will be able to shut down the bonding like that. So testing it out vs another army to see how they handle it is all I ask in order to make sure we're not passing something that is too strong for most armies to contend with.
 
Re: The Book of Silver Sable (Public Tests)

Yeah should probably do more tests with the Madripoor dudes. Any army with me in it is a bit unfair to test against.
 
Re: The Book of Silver Sable (Public Tests)

I even caught myself and changed it to Soundwave in the PT report when writing it up. But alas, you turned up like a bad penny in the follow up post.
 
Re: The Book of Silver Sable (Public Tests)

I even caught myself and changed it to Soundwave in the PT report when writing it up. But alas, you turned up like a bad penny in the follow up post.

You should see what happens when you say his name into a mirror three times!
 
Re: The Book of Silver Sable (Public Tests)

I even caught myself and changed it to Soundwave in the PT report when writing it up. But alas, you turned up like a bad penny in the follow up post.

You should see what happens when you say his name into a mirror three times!


It's funny you mention that. I just read an article that mentioned that Burger King in Sweden (I think?) was installing stuff in their bathroom so that if you said something 3 times while looking in the mirror Ronald McDonald appeared.
 
Re: The Book of Silver Sable (Public Tests)

:lol: That's horrifying.
 
Re: The Book of Silver Sable (Waiting for Initial)

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Silver Sable

Army Test
Map: City Park
Units: Silver Sable(195), Bane(190), Deadshot(150), Deadpool(285), Harley Quinn II(180) vs. F4 [1000]

Spoiler Alert!

___________________________________________________________​

Army Test
Map: City Park
Units: Silver Sable(195), Bane(190), Deadshot(150), Deadpool(285), Harley Quinn II(180) vs. F4 [1000]

Spoiler Alert!

___________________________________________________________​

Army Test
Map: City Park
Units: Silver Sable(200), Atlas(270), Anti-Venom(260), Radioactive Man(160), Ragdoll(100) vs. Frankenstein(320), Dragon Man(320), Dragon Man(350) [990]
Spoiler Alert!

___________________________________________________________​

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: Very cool leader for a weird little group. The Bane, Deadshot and Deadpool combo is scary good. Never had any luck attacking with her or Dodging but her leadership makes her worth drafting and certainly has potential.
 
Re: The Book of Silver Sable (Public Tests)

Cool. Hopefully one more set focusing on the Madripoor Mercs will be enough to move along.
 
Re: The Book of Silver Sable (Public Tests)

Results from Fresh:

FreshFoods said:
C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT : SILVER SABLE

Spoiler Alert!


Army Test
Map : Swamp Lab (No Glyphs)
Units :
Silver Sable (200), Bane (190), Madri. Mercs x2 (190), Domino (225)
= 805


VS.

Johnny Cage (175), Ka-Zar (170), Zabu (130), Harley Quinn *2* (180), Bud and Lou (70), Speedy *Mia* (80)
= 805


Spoiler Alert!


Army Test
Map : Swamp Lab (No Glyphs)
Units :
Silver Sable (200) Madri Mercs. x3 (285), Spider-Man *Symbiote* (275), Titanium Man (240)
= 1000


VS.

Hawkgirl (225), Hawkman *Katar* (225), Hawkmen of Thanagar x2 (200), Wonder Woman *3* (310), Skurll Infiltrator x 4 (40)
= 1000


Spoiler Alert!


Thoughts on the Tested Unit's Cost, Balance, and Draftability : I think her cost is fine. She kind of feels like Professor X for a different faction, she activates 2 heroes and has a defensive power. Definitely has her own way of doing those things though.

On draftability, she feels excellent for Outlaws or Mercenaries. Bringing a Spider-Man into Outlaws gives him some nice synergies (I wonder if a Waller/Sable thing could work?), while Mercs have some synergy for Sable. If I run either of those two armies I wouldn't say she's an auto include since she competes with other cards for the OM efficiency portion of an army (Catman, Waller, kind of Cable), but what she lacks in attack power compared to them, she makes up for in how much you get from activating her.

General Thoughts on the Tested Unit : Fun card, I'm a sucker for a design that lets you bring units into a faction. Madripoor Mercenaries don't feel overpowered with her, but they did feel strong. They make an effective screen, and moving 3 from the rear while attacking with 3 up front is great. However, Cut and Run kind of forces you to keep them close to the other heroes you activate with Wild Pack or Sable. I wouldn't be surprised if it's one of her strongest builds, pairing her with 2-4 Madripoor Mercs.
 
Re: The Book of Silver Sable (Public Tests)

How are we feeling? Not sure the Madripoor Merc concerns have been totally settled. I was thinking about asking for another test (maybe specifically asking for Sable/M. Mercs/Bane).
 
Re: The Book of Silver Sable (Public Tests)

I do see having Bane, the Madripoor Mercs, or both in her army as her strongest army builds at the moment. Personally I don't mind the Mercs being a great pairing as she runs a large Merc Outfit that employs lots of Mercs. Even though he's from DC, I don't mind Bane being getting some love either. He fits rather well as someone she'd hire as a lieutenant in her Outfit in my mind. He's been both a henchmen and a Merc leader type.

The only question is if we can find a balance where they are go to options that make a good army, but one that's beatable, while at the same time an army without them can still win games too. Now the Decipticons did pull out the narrowest of wins when facing both Bane and the Mercs at the same time in my game, then Hawkman defeated the Mercs in Fresh's game. His Bane/Mercs combo game was a pretty big blow out but I also agree with his own assessment that the opposing army wasn't super competitive. Outside of that, Bane split T's games vs. the Fan4, while your own Bane game was a super close win. Then she's 1-2 without either Bane or the Mercs in her army.

You mentioned in your initial that some of the big names from her crew have not been carded, so those future cards could be designed such that they are on an even footing with Bane and/or the Madripoor Mercs as drafting options. As such, I think she may be fine as is at 200, with room for her 'best' army builds to grow in number. If you want another set of tests just to be sure, I won't fault you for it.
 
Re: The Book of Silver Sable (Public Tests)

Totally on the same page. I'm okay with Bane/Mercs being her best option for now, since she has tight thematic allies that we're yet to build up. My only lingering concern is if the Mercs/Bane combo is a little on the strong side.

I think what I'm doing here is that I'm gonna de-list her from public testing, but run a game with Bane/Mercs myself - I overlooked that combo in the initial, so I wouldn't mind getting hands-on with it myself anyhow.
 
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