The Book of Seth

[Viegon]

Re: Seth - CRB Phase

Alright, I'm looking at taking the Initial here but I wanted to clarify a couple things before I started:
1) With Mark of Death, to use it you have to pick an adjacent hero at the start of Seth's turn, but you only get to place the marker if Seth moves out of engagement with that hero and skips his attack, right? Then the affect of the marker only triggers if those two end up back engaged, at which point their stuck fighting each other. Do I have that right?
2) Mark of Death requires that Seth "does not attack this turn"; does this mean he could use Serpent Crush and Mark of Death in the same turn? Or does "instead of attacking" on Serpent Crush count as attacking for the purpose of Mark of Death? I'm assuming the intent is that he can't use them both in the same turn, but I wanted to be sure.

Also, shouldn't the thread be "The Book of Seth - CRB Phase"?

 

[SirGalahad]

Re: Seth - CRB Phase

Alright, I'm looking at taking the Initial here but I wanted to clarify a couple things before I started:
1) With Mark of Death, to use it you have to pick an adjacent hero at the start of Seth's turn, but you only get to place the marker if Seth moves out of engagement with that hero and skips his attack, right? Then the affect of the marker only triggers if those two end up back engaged, at which point their stuck fighting each other. Do I have that right?
2) Mark of Death requires that Seth "does not attack this turn"; does this mean he could use Serpent Crush and Mark of Death in the same turn? Or does "instead of attacking" on Serpent Crush count as attacking for the purpose of Mark of Death? I'm assuming the intent is that he can't use them both in the same turn, but I wanted to be sure.

Also, shouldn't the thread be "The Book of Seth - CRB Phase"?

Correct in both 1 and 2.

As far as the thread title, I have always left off the "The Book of" until the unit is finished.

 

[Viegon]

Re: Seth - CRB Phase

Correct in both 1 and 2.

Cool. I'll start work on running Seth's Initial soon.

As far as the thread title, I have always left off the "The Book of" until the unit is finished.

Oh, alright. Just ignore the new guy trying to catch up then.

 

[SirGalahad]

Re: Seth - CRB Phase

No worries. It's a lot to take in.

 

[dok]

Re: Seth - CRB Phase

I just realized that a figure who is marked and engaged with Seth and a Daring Decoy (and can't move around Seth in such a way as to leave engagement with the Decoy) can't attack at all.

 

[quozl]

Re: Seth - CRB Phase

I think this would solve that although it definitely changes things:

THE MARK OF DEATH
Start the game with a black Death Marker on this card. Before taking a turn with Seth, if your Death Marker is on this card, you may choose an opponent’s adjacent Unique or Event Hero. If Seth ends his movement unengaged with the chosen Hero and does not attack this turn, place your Death Marker on the chosen Hero's card. When Seth and a figure with your Death Marker on its card engage each another, they cannot move out of engagement with each other, be affected by any special power on an Army Card or Glyph, or attack any other figures. When the chosen Hero or Seth is destroyed, return your Death Marker to this card.

 

[Viegon]

Re: Seth - CRB Phase

I think this would solve that although it definitely changes things:

THE MARK OF DEATH
Start the game with a black Death Marker on this card. Before taking a turn with Seth, if your Death Marker is on this card, you may choose an opponent’s adjacent Unique or Event Hero. If Seth ends his movement unengaged with the chosen Hero and does not attack this turn, place your Death Marker on the chosen Hero's card. When Seth and a figure with your Death Marker on its card engage each another, they cannot move out of engagement with each other, be affected by any special power on an Army Card or Glyph, or attack any other figures. When the chosen Hero or Seth is destroyed, return your Death Marker to this card.

That'd be a huge change; he could then use it to decimate certain synergies (against Fan4, he could cut off Mr. Fantastic's bonding power and Invisible Woman's defense boost ).

However, I suspect the power as is will be kind of weak, so the change might not be a bad thing.

 

[Viegon]

Re: Seth - CRB Phase

THE MARK OF DEATH
Start the game with a black Death Marker on this card. Before taking a turn with Seth, if your Death Marker is on this card, you may choose an opponent’s adjacent Unique or Event Hero. If Seth ends his movement unengaged with the chosen Hero and does not attack this turn, place your Death Marker on the chosen Hero's card. When Seth and a figure with your Death Marker on its card engage each another, they cannot move out of engagement with each other, be affected by any special power on an Army Card or Glyph, or attack any other figures. When the chosen Hero or Seth is destroyed, return your Death Marker to this card.

Actually, after thinking about it a little more, that would cause a lot of issues. What about powers on that figure's card? Can Jean Grey still use Telekinesis on other figures but not herself? Can Wolverine use his Berserker ability?

Also, I realized another odd thing with the current write-up in the SP: While Mark of Death only allows Seth to attack the marked figure, it doesn't say anything about Serpent Crush. That means he could trigger Mark of Death, but then sit there and use Serpent Crush on other enemies. This is also true for the marked figure: Graviton, for example, could still toss other figures.

I'd suggest it be reworded something like this:

THE MARK OF DEATH
Start the game with a black Death Marker on this card. Before taking a turn with Seth, if your Death Marker is on this card, you may choose an opponent’s adjacent Unique or Event Hero. If Seth ends his movement not engaged with the chosen Hero and does not attack this turn, place your Death Marker on the chosen Hero's card. When Seth and a figure with your Death Marker on its card engage each other, they cannot move out of engagement with each other, be moved by any special power on an Army Card or Glyph, or target any other figure for an attack or special power on its Army Card or a Glyph. If a special power would prevent Seth or the chosen Hero from attacking each other, that special power is negated for that attack. When Seth or the chosen Hero is destroyed, return your Death Marker to this card.

Regardless of which direct we do decide to go, I'd like to know soon as I was hoping to start on the Initial today.

 

[SirGalahad]

Re: Seth - CRB Phase

Pretty wordy (which we can work on as we go), but I think the intent is clear.

Carry on.

 

[dok]

Re: Seth - CRB Phase

I don't think the intent is clear. Can you still use non-wounding powers on other figures, including bonding powers?

How about we just let the figure do other stuff if they must?

Once Seth and a figure with your Death Marker on its card engage each other, they cannot move out of engagement with each other or be moved by any special power on an Army Card or Glyph, and if they target a figure for an attack or for a special power on an Army Card or a Glyph that inflicts wounds, they must choose each other, if possible.​

So a daring decoy may still be attacked, and figure moving powers can still be used on other figures. I think this hits the main points and is a little more self-contained.

 

[Viegon]

Re: Seth - CRB Phase

I don't think the intent is clear. Can you still use non-wounding powers on other figures, including bonding powers?

While it does get odd with some powers, for the most part it's clear: you can't use a power that requires you to target/choose a figure, unless you target/choose the other figure locked in by the Mark of Death.

How about we just let the figure do other stuff if they must?

Once Seth and a figure with your Death Marker on its card engage each other, they cannot move out of engagement with each other or be moved by any special power on an Army Card or Glyph, and if they target a figure for an attack or for a special power on an Army Card or a Glyph that inflicts wounds, they must choose each other, if possible.​

So a daring decoy may still be attacked, and figure moving powers can still be used on other figures. I think this hits the main points and is a little more self-contained.

That works too, though likewise runs into some odd interactions: for example, does Jean Grey's Telekinesis count as a special power that inflicts wounds? What about Balder's Frigga's Magic Blessing?

I'm not opposed to it, I do like that it's shorter, but it seems to me no matter how we do this it's going to run into some very odd interactions.

 

[quozl]

Re: Seth - CRB Phase

We could do the power in other ways too, like giving incentives to attack each other like Hercules does. The theme here is that once Seth marks you, the next time you meet Seth, one of them will die.

 

[Karat]

Re: Seth - CRB Phase

I will think on this, and post thoughts after school.

 

[dok]

Re: Seth - CRB Phase

I don't think the intent is clear. Can you still use non-wounding powers on other figures, including bonding powers?

While it does get odd with some powers, for the most part it's clear: you can't use a power that requires you to target/choose a figure, unless you target/choose the other figure locked in by the Mark of Death.

Well, I don't know this guy from comics, but this version of the power is pretty close to a blanket negation, which doesn't seem like the theme you are going for.

How about we just let the figure do other stuff if they must?

Once Seth and a figure with your Death Marker on its card engage each other, they cannot move out of engagement with each other or be moved by any special power on an Army Card or Glyph, and if they target a figure for an attack or for a special power on an Army Card or a Glyph that inflicts wounds, they must choose each other, if possible.​

So a daring decoy may still be attacked, and figure moving powers can still be used on other figures. I think this hits the main points and is a little more self-contained.

That works too, though likewise runs into some odd interactions: for example, does Jean Grey's Telekinesis count as a special power that inflicts wounds? What about Balder's Frigga's Magic Blessing?

Telekinesis is certainly a special power that inflicts wounds, however, it first moves the figure, so you can't pick Seth. Because it's not "possible" to choose Seth, you can choose others.

I'm not sure what's confusing on Frigga's Magic Blessing. You roll the die as usual. The skull and shield don't let you choose anything. If you roll the blank, then you have to pick Seth.

I'm not opposed to it, I do like that it's shorter, but it seems to me no matter how we do this it's going to run into some very odd interactions.

I suppose that's true. This version gets closer to what I think is the intended set of effects though.

 

[Karat]

Re: Seth - CRB Phase

How's this?

When Seth and a figure with your Death Marker on its card engage each other, they cannot move out of engagement with each other, be moved by any special power on an Army Card or Glyph, they must target each other for all attacks or special powers that cause wounds, and Seth and the chosen Hero cannot be prevented from attacking each other. When the chosen Hero or Seth is destroyed, return your Death Marker to this card.

The only part of this text that doesn't really sit well with me is the triple usage of "each other", but I am unsure of how to fix that.

 

[TrollBrute]

Re: Seth - CRB Phase

How's this?

When Seth and a figure with your Death Marker on its card engage each other, they cannot move out of engagement with each other, be moved by any special power on an Army Card or Glyph, they must target each other for all attacks or special powers that cause wounds, and Seth and the chosen Hero cannot be prevented from attacking each other. When the chosen Hero or Seth is destroyed, return your Death Marker to this card.

The only part of this text that doesn't really sit well with me is the triple usage of "each other", but I am unsure of how to fix that.

That doesn't really fix any of the issues from dok's suggestion. I like quozl's idea. Something like this?

When Seth and a figure with your Death Marker on its card engage each other, they cannot move out of engagement with each other, be moved by any special power on an Army Card or Glyph. During their turns, if Seth or the chosen figure inflicts a wound on an opponent's figure that is not the other, they receive one wound.

I have it on their turns so that units with passive powers like Counterstrike and Engagement Strike aren't affected worse than others. Wording probably needs some major work though.

 

[Viegon]

Re: Seth - CRB Phase

I don't think the intent is clear. Can you still use non-wounding powers on other figures, including bonding powers?

While it does get odd with some powers, for the most part it's clear: you can't use a power that requires you to target/choose a figure, unless you target/choose the other figure locked in by the Mark of Death.

Well, I don't know this guy from comics, but this version of the power is pretty close to a blanket negation, which doesn't seem like the theme you are going for.

I don't see how the version I posted would be a "blanket negation"; for the target, any automatic powers (Healing Factors, Double Attacks, etc.) would still be in affect and any special attacks or offensive powers could still be used on Seth. The only "negation" I can think of would be supportive powers: Mr. Fantastic, for example, couldn't use his leadership ability.

I'm not sure what's confusing on Frigga's Magic Blessing. You roll the die as usual. The skull and shield don't let you choose anything. If you roll the blank, then you have to pick Seth.

Never mind, I was thinking Frigga's Magic Blessing worked slightly differently.

I'm not opposed to it, I do like that it's shorter, but it seems to me no matter how we do this it's going to run into some very odd interactions.

I suppose that's true. This version gets closer to what I think is the intended set of effects though.

Hmm. See, I was thinking the emphasis of the character was that the two combatants wouldn't be able to fight any one else at all, which is what my version captured.

SirG, which would be more thematic?

When Seth and a figure with your Death Marker on its card engage each other, they cannot move out of engagement with each other or be moved by any special power on an Army Card or Glyph. During their turns, if Seth or the chosen figure inflicts a wound on an opponent's figure that is not the other, they receive one wound.

I also really like this direction.

 

[japes]

Re: Seth - CRB Phase

How's this?

When Seth and a figure with your Death Marker on its card engage each other, they cannot move out of engagement with each other, be moved by any special power on an Army Card or Glyph, they must target each other for all attacks or special powers that cause wounds, and Seth and the chosen Hero cannot be prevented from attacking each other. When the chosen Hero or Seth is destroyed, return your Death Marker to this card.

The only part of this text that doesn't really sit well with me is the triple usage of "each other", but I am unsure of how to fix that.

That doesn't really fix any of the issues from dok's suggestion. I like quozl's idea. Something like this?

When Seth and a figure with your Death Marker on its card engage each other, they cannot move out of engagement with each other, be moved by any special power on an Army Card or Glyph. During their turns, if Seth or the chosen figure inflicts a wound on an opponent's figure that is not the other, they receive one wound.

I have it on their turns so that units with passive powers like Counterstrike and Engagement Strike aren't affected worse than others. Wording probably needs some major work though.

For this part couldn't it be simplified to

When Seth is engaged with another figure with a Death Marker on its card, the two figures may not be moved out of engagement by any means.

Doesn't this cover special movement powers as well as?

if "by any means" is a hangup..

When Seth is engaged with another figure with a Death Marker on its card, the two figures may not be move out of engagement with each other or be moved out of engagement by any special power.

and for the last part...

Seth and the figure with the Death Marker on its card may only target an adjacent figure with a Death Marker on its card.

Just spit-balling in hopes of inspiring someone with the correct wording.

 

[Karat]

Re: Seth - CRB Phase

How's this?

When Seth and a figure with your Death Marker on its card engage each other, they cannot move out of engagement with each other, be moved by any special power on an Army Card or Glyph, they must target each other for all attacks or special powers that cause wounds, and Seth and the chosen Hero cannot be prevented from attacking each other. When the chosen Hero or Seth is destroyed, return your Death Marker to this card.

The only part of this text that doesn't really sit well with me is the triple usage of "each other", but I am unsure of how to fix that.

That doesn't really fix any of the issues from dok's suggestion. I like quozl's idea. Something like this?

When Seth and a figure with your Death Marker on its card engage each other, they cannot move out of engagement with each other, be moved by any special power on an Army Card or Glyph. During their turns, if Seth or the chosen figure inflicts a wound on an opponent's figure that is not the other, they receive one wound.

I have it on their turns so that units with passive powers like Counterstrike and Engagement Strike aren't affected worse than others. Wording probably needs some major work though.

For this part couldn't it be simplified to

When Seth is engaged with another figure with a Death Marker on its card, the two figures may not be moved out of engagement by any means.

Doesn't this cover special movement powers as well as?

if "by any means" is a hangup..

When Seth is engaged with another figure with a Death Marker on its card, the two figures may not be move out of engagement with each other or be moved out of engagement by any special power.

and for the last part...

Seth and the figure with the Death Marker on its card may only target an adjacent figure with a Death Marker on its card.

Just spit-balling in hopes of inspiring someone with the correct wording.

I'm liking those changes.

 

[japes]

Re: Seth - CRB Phase

When Seth and a figure with your Death Marker on its card engage each other, they cannot move out of engagement with each other or be moved by any special power on an Army Card or Glyph. During their turns, if Seth or the chosen figure inflicts a wound on an opponent's figure that is not the other, they receive one wound.

I also really like this direction.

One issue that may be important to bring up here...what if there was an area attack that would also wound a second adjacent opponent's figure...would you want that to give Seth a wound even though the initial target was still his marked for death target.